Englands T20WC squad 2014

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Re: Englands T20WC squad 2014

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:54 am

Good stuff slipstream. Surprising that we've basically had four death bowlers since the format began plus the occasional interloper. And they've all pretty much struggled.
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Re: Englands T20WC squad 2014

Postby Durhamfootman » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:52 pm

so now that it's all over bar the shouting, what do we think?

For me (just listening to the radio and following the scorecards) it feels a bit like watching Durham. If all of your main bowlers are going at more than 10 an over all of the time (which Durham bowlers do a lot in T20) then your batsmen are always going to have to score close to 200 every time just to avoid losing, which doesn't seem like a winning formula to me.

Then again..... maybe that's exactly what T20 should be like. perhaps we, as fans, just have to accept that that is the way the game is moving. setting 200 every time and hoping that that's enough, or being comfortable with a 200 chase.

Shoddy fielding, though, is unforgivable in limited overs matches, and particularly in T20 ( a bit more leeway in tests perhaps), and from what I've heard It's been a little like watching the Keystone Kops when England have been in the field. Of course the game has moved on since 2010, but we were consistently terrific in the field back then, and we aren't now. Perhaps it's a confidence thing, and this tournament came at exactly the wrong time after repeated maulings at the hands of pretty much everyone we played over the winter, and the inevitable black hole that the whole organisation was sucked into.

But, perhaps, moving forward, the fielding is the starting point for any rebuilding that is required
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Re: Englands T20WC squad 2014

Postby sussexpob » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:11 pm

Durhamfootman wrote:so now that it's all over bar the shouting, what do we think?

For me (just listening to the radio and following the scorecards) it feels a bit like watching Durham. If all of your main bowlers are going at more than 10 an over all of the time (which Durham bowlers do a lot in T20) then your batsmen are always going to have to score close to 200 every time just to avoid losing, which doesn't seem like a winning formula to me.

Then again..... maybe that's exactly what T20 should be like. perhaps we, as fans, just have to accept that that is the way the game is moving. setting 200 every time and hoping that that's enough, or being comfortable with a 200 chase.

Shoddy fielding, though, is unforgivable in limited overs matches, and particularly in T20 ( a bit more leeway in tests perhaps), and from what I've heard It's been a little like watching the Keystone Kops when England have been in the field. Of course the game has moved on since 2010, but we were consistently terrific in the field back then, and we aren't now. Perhaps it's a confidence thing, and this tournament came at exactly the wrong time after repeated maulings at the hands of pretty much everyone we played over the winter, and the inevitable black hole that the whole organisation was sucked into.

But, perhaps, moving forward, the fielding is the starting point for any rebuilding that is required


http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/conten ... 83267.html

Bopara is the only one that makes the list.

Its not accepting that the game is 200 runs per side, tbf thats rubbish. Teams like Windies have produced bowlers who are very difficult to get away, Pakistan have a few like Afridi and Ajmal also.
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Re: Englands T20WC squad 2014

Postby SaintPowelly » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:37 pm

England have been getting T20 ( and ODI ) formulas wrong for years ( barring 2010 ), I'll speak on the case that annoys me the most :

Dimi Mascarenhas : One of the finest new ball bowlers in limited overs cricket I have ever seen, played 14 T20is for England and got the new ball TWICE, and in those games, he had figures of 2-0-14-1 against Pakistan on a pitch that England managed to score 185 on, and 4-0-22-0 ( 5.5 per over ) against South Africa. I genuinely don't think England have ever mis-used a player more than Mascarenhas.
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Re: Englands T20WC squad 2014

Postby sussexpob » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:45 pm

SaintPowelly wrote:England have been getting T20 ( and ODI ) formulas wrong for years ( barring 2010 ), I'll speak on the case that annoys me the most :

Dimi Mascarenhas : One of the finest new ball bowlers in limited overs cricket I have ever seen, played 14 T20is for England and got the new ball TWICE, and in those games, he had figures of 2-0-14-1 against Pakistan on a pitch that England managed to score 185 on, and 4-0-22-0 ( 5.5 per over ) against South Africa. I genuinely don't think England have ever mis-used a player more than Mascarenhas.


The criticism was he never took wickets, but then, he hardly ever went for runs either. I dont care about wickets really in ODI cricket, wickets only mean slower runs if anything, and if someone is already restricting to 4-5 an over, they are doing their job.

He also could hit a ball....and I mean really hit a ball. As a lower order 8 and guy who could bowl tight, he was criminally underused in ODI's
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Re: Englands T20WC squad 2014

Postby SaintPowelly » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:49 pm

sussexpob wrote:
SaintPowelly wrote:England have been getting T20 ( and ODI ) formulas wrong for years ( barring 2010 ), I'll speak on the case that annoys me the most :

Dimi Mascarenhas : One of the finest new ball bowlers in limited overs cricket I have ever seen, played 14 T20is for England and got the new ball TWICE, and in those games, he had figures of 2-0-14-1 against Pakistan on a pitch that England managed to score 185 on, and 4-0-22-0 ( 5.5 per over ) against South Africa. I genuinely don't think England have ever mis-used a player more than Mascarenhas.


The criticism was he never took wickets, but then, he hardly ever went for runs either. I dont care about wickets really in ODI cricket, wickets only mean slower runs if anything, and if someone is already restricting to 4-5 an over, they are doing their job.

He also could hit a ball....and I mean really hit a ball. As a lower order 8 and guy who could bowl tight, he was criminally underused in ODI's


I agree, and Dimis at his best bowling 4 consecutive overs at the start, and he got that opportunity once, Bopara is in a similar position now..hes there for the sake of it with no particular role, would be better off picking a proper out and out bowler or a proper power hitter.
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Re: Englands T20WC squad 2014

Postby Durhamfootman » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:49 pm

sussexpob wrote:Its not accepting that the game is 200 runs per side, tbf thats rubbish.

for England it is. It has to be when bowlers go for that many.

for the ICC... well, they'd like it to be, I think. If they don't get it, they may try only allowing one fielder out deep for 6 overs in the middle of an innings, whilst bringing in the boundaries another 10 or 20M, and telling the bowlers that they have to bowl with their non-bowling arm. They market it as a game of sixes.... not a game of trying to keep things tight........ sixes! and eventually they'll change the rules until they get it. Then when they change the rules and the teams find a different solution to the one the authorities want, they'll change them again, and again until they do get what they want. We can see them doing this in 50 over cricket already

and actually... about the only thing that would get me to a T20 match, England or the Durham Jets (guffaw) would be to see big fast bowlers firing the ball in and watching it sail out of the ground

all this fiddling about, *modded* around with fielders in, fielders out, slowing the game down, a bit of dibbly dobbly in the middle

bollix

think I'd rather watch paint dry

But give me a game with Johno, Steyn, Malinga, Gul, and Parnell, firing in the Yorkers, banging in the bouncers, trying to knock a batsman's head off on a right bouncy old wicket, whilst DeV, Gayle, McC, Dhoni and Pietersen try to whack it out of the ground......... I would pay money to see that
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Re: Englands T20WC squad 2014

Postby Durhamfootman » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:53 pm

SaintPowelly wrote: Bopara is in a similar position now..hes there for the sake of it with no particular role, would be better off picking a proper out and out bowler or a proper power hitter.

we did that in 2010 as well...... what was Luke Wright there for in 2010? He was just there because he could hit the ball a bit and bowl a bit, but in reality he never had the opportunity to do much of either. That must have been a great team, you know because England could have won it with only 10 players............. and none of them Jimmy Anderson
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Re: Englands T20WC squad 2014

Postby sussexpob » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:57 pm

SaintPowelly wrote:
sussexpob wrote:
SaintPowelly wrote:England have been getting T20 ( and ODI ) formulas wrong for years ( barring 2010 ), I'll speak on the case that annoys me the most :

Dimi Mascarenhas : One of the finest new ball bowlers in limited overs cricket I have ever seen, played 14 T20is for England and got the new ball TWICE, and in those games, he had figures of 2-0-14-1 against Pakistan on a pitch that England managed to score 185 on, and 4-0-22-0 ( 5.5 per over ) against South Africa. I genuinely don't think England have ever mis-used a player more than Mascarenhas.


The criticism was he never took wickets, but then, he hardly ever went for runs either. I dont care about wickets really in ODI cricket, wickets only mean slower runs if anything, and if someone is already restricting to 4-5 an over, they are doing their job.

He also could hit a ball....and I mean really hit a ball. As a lower order 8 and guy who could bowl tight, he was criminally underused in ODI's


I agree, and Dimis at his best bowling 4 consecutive overs at the start, and he got that opportunity once, Bopara is in a similar position now..hes there for the sake of it with no particular role, would be better off picking a proper out and out bowler or a proper power hitter.



It pains me to say it, but Hampshire have been possibly the stand out OD team in England in the last decade, or slightly shorter. Yet it seems their players are very undesirable to be picked.... I said this when the OD coach was being discussed, but why are the coaching staff at the Rose Bowl never mentioned? Why do we treat Danny Briggs like an idiot when his econ rate is below 7 and he is a potential match winner?
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Re: Englands T20WC squad 2014

Postby SaintPowelly » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:02 am

sussexpob wrote:
SaintPowelly wrote:
sussexpob wrote:
SaintPowelly wrote:England have been getting T20 ( and ODI ) formulas wrong for years ( barring 2010 ), I'll speak on the case that annoys me the most :

Dimi Mascarenhas : One of the finest new ball bowlers in limited overs cricket I have ever seen, played 14 T20is for England and got the new ball TWICE, and in those games, he had figures of 2-0-14-1 against Pakistan on a pitch that England managed to score 185 on, and 4-0-22-0 ( 5.5 per over ) against South Africa. I genuinely don't think England have ever mis-used a player more than Mascarenhas.


The criticism was he never took wickets, but then, he hardly ever went for runs either. I dont care about wickets really in ODI cricket, wickets only mean slower runs if anything, and if someone is already restricting to 4-5 an over, they are doing their job.

He also could hit a ball....and I mean really hit a ball. As a lower order 8 and guy who could bowl tight, he was criminally underused in ODI's


I agree, and Dimis at his best bowling 4 consecutive overs at the start, and he got that opportunity once, Bopara is in a similar position now..hes there for the sake of it with no particular role, would be better off picking a proper out and out bowler or a proper power hitter.



It pains me to say it, but Hampshire have been possibly the stand out OD team in England in the last decade, or slightly shorter. Yet it seems their players are very undesirable to be picked.... I said this when the OD coach was being discussed, but why are the coaching staff at the Rose Bowl never mentioned? Why do we treat Danny Briggs like an idiot when his econ rate is below 7 and he is a potential match winner?


I actually wrote a paragraph on Briggs but deleted it, hes been given the new ball for England twice, when its Liam Dawson that does that role for Hants, Dawson darts balls in, Briggs relies on flight, yet the England coaches/think tank see SLA and think anyone'll do the job :facepalm
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Re: Englands T20WC squad 2014

Postby sussexpob » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:13 am

I guess as well that the Rose Bowl at the time he was coming into the team was a pretty difficult place to bowl. I remember the game in 2010 when you scored near 200 against us, the boundary was close enough for the batsman to tough, and the pitches that summer I think were pretty docile. For a young lad to come into a team at 19 ish and bowl incredibly tight while knowing anything a batsman gets hold of remotely near the middle is a six down the pitch....

Yet England gave him a few games, threw him to the lions and then got rid of him
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Re: Englands T20WC squad 2014

Postby SaintPowelly » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:22 am

This game epitomizes Danny Briggs' brilliance :

http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Score ... 62825.html
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Re: Englands T20WC squad 2014

Postby meninblue » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:45 am

The bowling performance of England bowlers in the ongoing T20 cup so far.

England bowlers.jpg


Broad, Bresnan and Tredwell have taken 3 wickets and given away 225 runs.Jade is the most expensive but unlike Broad, Tredwell and Bresnan he did pick 2 more wickets and was lone support to Chris in that aspect at least.Broad, Bresnan and Tredwell failed to do even a single role properly.Chris clearly has been the best England bowler in comparison to his team mates.

When the specialist bowlers are bowling worse than part timers, there is little scope of moving into the knockouts. There was too much pressure on the batting order to support such a non performing bowling attack.The composition of bowling attack with more pacers was shocking for a T20 tournament that too in Bangladesh. Much worse was the resources selected in pace bowling attack even though they were severely out of form in the lead up to this round games.

The fielding, apart form the bowling is also a major reason why the team has flopped.

Having lost 3 ? consecutive T20 series in 2014, there is huge pressure on selectors now. It will be interesting to see what changes they make . At least now they have to react.
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Re: Englands T20WC squad 2014

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:06 am

Fair assessment Adi.
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Re: Englands T20WC squad 2014

Postby meninblue » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:33 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Fair assessment Adi.


What do you think is the best way to look forward , majorly in terms of T20 bowling attack.
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