International Football thread

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Re: International Football thread

Postby sussexpob » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:30 pm

Dr Robert wrote::Eng:

A very good attacking performance last night, only blighted by some poor finishing. Really enjoyed the way we played, which was a refreshing change. having two wide men like Baines and Townsend suits us perfectly. The English way.


England have little chance of playing against such a poor defence in the world cup, and to be fair its an abomination that we failed to beat these first time, failed to beat Ukraine once, and failed to beat Montenegro away. Neither team is blessed with any defensive quality, yet managed to shut us out. Most noticably was the Montenegro away game where they controlled possession in the second half so blatently, and England literally didnt have the capacity to keep the ball.

Ledwandowski looked by miles the best player on the pitch.... with absoultely no support at all he created half chances. In comparision, Sturridge and Welbeck had things put on a plate and couldnt do things. Lambert would have scored a hattrick last night.

England need Wayne Rooney to be the man with the ball in the box, not either of these two clowns.
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Re: International Football thread

Postby sussexpob » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:58 pm

I'm still unconvinced by our CBs, even though I shouldn't be, given the small number of goals we conceded over the qualifying tournament. I'm not sure what it is, but I get the distinct feeling that a decent side (and there were no other decent sides in this group) will tear us to bits.


I do love the English press and how the wind effects their mood. We win two games against pants opponents(forgetting that in first half v Montenegro we were rubbish, and for large periods of yesterday seemed to allow Poland back into the second half and it took a rather lucky Joe Hart hand to keep Poland from equalising late on).... and all of a sudden Woy is a genius.If we play that team and tactics against anyone half decent, we would get slaughtered.

Carrick has been picked to be the string puller, Gerrard the more directly creative CM, and then 3 attacking CM's(two of which are out and out strikers) feeding to Sturridge.... who is expected to possess the defensive ball winning nous in midfield? Who provides the width on either channel? (It seemed yesterday that Welbeck tucked in, Baines provided on the left and Townsend was really a right winger, in essence giving you 2 x CB, 1 x RB, 1 x LW coming from deep, 2 x CM, 1 x RW but coming in from the touchline, 2 x SS and 3 Strikers.. with your best striker playing outside the box(incidentally took one good chance and finished it yesterday), no left back, a support striker with no established creative skills , and arguably your worse option out of all of the attackers as the main heading the arrow to finish the move off.

Its a very fliud system, but last night you saw that everyone in the final third was getting sucked into the middle and while Poland had a second rate defence created from Legia Warsaw and FC Vasaui (from Romania) players and allowed themselves to become narrow, no other team with even a shade of discipline is going to give you that space to create chances.... they will just force you to play through them, which requires a hint of a first touch and creative quality.... something that Danny Welbeck and Sturridge seem to lack, and a tactic that has not really proved effective previously for us.

If he wants to continue with similar formations then he has to think about making P.Jones his CM with Carrick(his role only works in a midfield that includes a water carrier, its what every successful team has), pushing Gerrard into his narrow left side AM role, Wilshere taking Rooneys role from last night, and Rooney as the link man at the top.
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Re: International Football thread

Postby SaintPowelly » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:57 pm

I would be tempted to play Cole as a LB, and Baines on the wing.
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Re: International Football thread

Postby Gingerfinch » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:39 pm

SaintPowelly wrote:I would be tempted to play Cole as a LB, and Baines on the wing.



In a 433?
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Re: International Football thread

Postby Durhamfootman » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:00 pm

Baines seems to be pretty reliable in defence as well as providing a genuine bit of attacking width. I used to think that Johnson was poor in defence and good in attack, but he disabused me of that opinion in the Euro's last year where he was our best player (IMO), so between him and Baines, we have reliable defenders who are able to take the game to the opposition down the wings. That is pretty exciting, really, and perhaps allows us to field more bodies centrally, against the better teams, who's greater technical ability allows them to dominate us in midfield. In those games we often seem to be forced to stand off them in order to prevent being carved up, whilst at the same time their pressing puts our players under pressure, and we struggle to play the ball in any meaningful way.

Agree that the tactics used last night are likely to get us into trouble against the better teams, but it was nice to see some attacking intent. The worst thing about the Ukraine draw (the last one) was the seeming lack of anything even remotely adventurous. It was clear that not losing was the most important thing. That won't get us very far at all next year.
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Re: International Football thread

Postby SaintPowelly » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:17 pm

Dr Robert wrote:
SaintPowelly wrote:I would be tempted to play Cole as a LB, and Baines on the wing.



In a 433?


4-4-2 for me

Hart

Clyne Jagielka Cahill Cole

Townsend Gerrard Lampard Baines
Rooney
Lambert
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Re: International Football thread

Postby Gingerfinch » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:22 pm

Gerrard and lampard? No thanks.

I quite like the 433 but would be happy with baines in front of cole in a 442. Cole is still a great defender.

I can see Roy playing 433 also, although it may become 451 when up against the better teams.
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Re: International Football thread

Postby sussexpob » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:49 pm

Dr Robert wrote:Gerrard and lampard? No thanks.


Both in a 4-4-2 system is ridiculous. Neither are young or quick enough now to play the box to box role, both are not good enough as passers to play the "registas" role, and you cannot play the whole of your central midfield between the channels, because you leave a massive gap.... and history has proved that (a) they dont play well (b) changing their role makes them ineffective (c) Neither can defend with quality.

It would make more sense to play them in the 4-2-3-1 system, but I ask again, please name me a team that has worked in that system that has not played the Registas/Trequartista/Defensive Anchor formula in the midfield?

And again, we tried that formula before. We even tried it under Capello with Rooney as almost a "false 9", dropping deeper to allow Lampard and Gerrard to come forward in a 4-5-1 system..... didnt work. Arguably in 2010 we looked the worst we ever have in decades.

Any 4-4-2 system does not really give England any flexibility or tactical upperhand. With two in the centre what type of two do you go for? Carrick and Lampard/Gerrard gives no tackler, Jones and Carrick is not going to give much going forward, Jones and Gerrard would just be tackling and hollywood type 50 yard passes.....

For me the team has to be 4-2-3-1 but change the personell....

Hart(but if anyone has half a decent season I would be capping them)

Johnson/Smalling Jags Cahill Cole

Wilshere Jones

Townsend Gerrard Walcott/Chamberlain(depending on Fitness/form)

Rooney
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Re: International Football thread

Postby Alviro Patterson » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:22 am

Dr Robert wrote::Eng:

A very good attacking performance last night, only blighted by some poor finishing. Really enjoyed the way we played, which was a refreshing change. having two wide men like Baines and Townsend suits us perfectly. The English way.


Not only that you have Sturridge and Welbeck being busy bodies playing wide and centre forward, I think Hodgson has got England's tactics nailed on and it's just a case of players getting up to scratch.

Lack of finishing from the above strikers is down to experience rather than ability, Welbeck is known for scoring goals anywhere in the final third.
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Re: International Football thread

Postby sussexpob » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:03 am

Welbeck is known for scoring goals anywhere in the final third.


Is he? He has never scored double figures in a year
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Re: International Football thread

Postby SaintPowelly » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:27 am

I was trying to be realistic with Gerrard and Lampard, as I think thats what it will be.

If I was really in charge, I'd play neither and go with James-Ward Prowse and Ross Barkley...anyone who watched the U21s on Tuesday will know how good JwP is
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Re: International Football thread

Postby Gingerfinch » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:31 am

SaintPowelly wrote:I was trying to be realistic with Gerrard and Lampard, as I think thats what it will be.

If I was really in charge, I'd play neither and go with James-Ward Prowse and Ross Barkley...anyone who watched the U21s on Tuesday will know how good JwP is


What about Morrison? I heard he was pretty decent.
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Re: International Football thread

Postby SaintPowelly » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:34 am

Dr Robert wrote:
SaintPowelly wrote:I was trying to be realistic with Gerrard and Lampard, as I think thats what it will be.

If I was really in charge, I'd play neither and go with James-Ward Prowse and Ross Barkley...anyone who watched the U21s on Tuesday will know how good JwP is


What about Morrison? I heard he was pretty decent.


Still has too many attitude problems for my liking, having an on-field shoving match with team-mate Wilfred Zaha has done nothing to change my opinion.
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Re: International Football thread

Postby Gingerfinch » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:37 am

SaintPowelly wrote:
Dr Robert wrote:
SaintPowelly wrote:I was trying to be realistic with Gerrard and Lampard, as I think thats what it will be.

If I was really in charge, I'd play neither and go with James-Ward Prowse and Ross Barkley...anyone who watched the U21s on Tuesday will know how good JwP is


What about Morrison? I heard he was pretty decent.


Still has too many attitude problems for my liking, having an on-field shoving match with team-mate Wilfred Zaha has done nothing to change my opinion.


Yeah saw that. Zaha was hardly blameless.
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Re: International Football thread

Postby SaintPowelly » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:38 am

Dr Robert wrote:
SaintPowelly wrote:
Dr Robert wrote:
SaintPowelly wrote:I was trying to be realistic with Gerrard and Lampard, as I think thats what it will be.

If I was really in charge, I'd play neither and go with James-Ward Prowse and Ross Barkley...anyone who watched the U21s on Tuesday will know how good JwP is


What about Morrison? I heard he was pretty decent.


Still has too many attitude problems for my liking, having an on-field shoving match with team-mate Wilfred Zaha has done nothing to change my opinion.


Yeah saw that. Zaha was hardly blameless.


Didn't say he was, Zaha seemed to start the argument, but Morrison should of walked away, instead he shoved Zaha first.
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