Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

Brazil's defensive brilliance 'key for a nation that demands winners'

Aidan11 wrote:The German manager told his players that they were better than Messi.

That is the difference between other managers and ours. If we were playing Argentina in the group stages (well it would never be in the final, would it?) our manager would come into the dressing room before the game and say to the players - "Messi's playing. AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!"

shankycricket wrote:

sussexpob wrote:

shankycricket wrote:Ridiculous decision to give Messi the Golden Ball (as much as I love him). Feels like a consolation prize. Robben, James and Mascherano were comfortably better in the tournament. Had to be Robben really.

Yawn.... Messi had a brilliant game yesterday, save for the goal that never was. It seems people expect him to beat 7 men every attack to be acceptable. His subtle touch, and the quick acceleration of play was behind virtually everything that Argentina did this World Cup, he was really good.

And when he didn't play well, it was because he was treble marked.... when you play alongside Mascherano (no attacking prowess), an injured Aguero and half fit Higuain, Perez and Biglia as your midfield support, you don't have much to back you up.... but think, Holland tore Spain apart, but didn't commit ANYONE forward when Messi was against them... they were scared to leave their own half!!! So he didn't do much that game, but no one would have.... its ok to say German players would have, but then I am sure Messi would have destroyed teams if he had Schurrle/Gotze/Mueller/Ozeil, etc to work with. He setup Di Maria for the winner against Switzerland, and then Di Maria got injured.... after that Sabella even had to go to Aguero, who clearly couldn't move!!

Given half a yard space, in most games he made the difference, and he and Javier dragged what was an immensely average team with key players not fit, and took them to a World Cup final which they should have won.

But hey.... join all the other jealous pundits who are looking for a new tagline because "Messi being brilliant" doesn't sell the papers like "Messi isn't Maradona"........

Erm, when did I say he hasn't had a good tournament? Although I disagree that he had a "brilliant" game yesterday. On the whole, he has had a good tournament but definitely not the best player of the tournament or even in the top 5, for that matter. Whether he'd have been better with a stronger midfield is of course conjecture. I am sure he would have and I'm not saying Robben, James, etc are better players than him but you can only go based on what happened and not "what would've happened". And in my opinion, there were at least 5-6 players more deserving of the Golden Ball (which includes a couple of goalkeepers).

Aidan11 wrote:The German manager told his players that they were better than Messi.

That is the difference between other managers and ours. If we were playing Argentina in the group stages (well it would never be in the final, would it?) our manager would come into the dressing room before the game and say to the players - "Messi's playing. AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!"

sussexpob wrote:

shankycricket wrote:

sussexpob wrote:

shankycricket wrote:Ridiculous decision to give Messi the Golden Ball (as much as I love him). Feels like a consolation prize. Robben, James and Mascherano were comfortably better in the tournament. Had to be Robben really.

Yawn.... Messi had a brilliant game yesterday, save for the goal that never was. It seems people expect him to beat 7 men every attack to be acceptable. His subtle touch, and the quick acceleration of play was behind virtually everything that Argentina did this World Cup, he was really good.

And when he didn't play well, it was because he was treble marked.... when you play alongside Mascherano (no attacking prowess), an injured Aguero and half fit Higuain, Perez and Biglia as your midfield support, you don't have much to back you up.... but think, Holland tore Spain apart, but didn't commit ANYONE forward when Messi was against them... they were scared to leave their own half!!! So he didn't do much that game, but no one would have.... its ok to say German players would have, but then I am sure Messi would have destroyed teams if he had Schurrle/Gotze/Mueller/Ozeil, etc to work with. He setup Di Maria for the winner against Switzerland, and then Di Maria got injured.... after that Sabella even had to go to Aguero, who clearly couldn't move!!

Given half a yard space, in most games he made the difference, and he and Javier dragged what was an immensely average team with key players not fit, and took them to a World Cup final which they should have won.

But hey.... join all the other jealous pundits who are looking for a new tagline because "Messi being brilliant" doesn't sell the papers like "Messi isn't Maradona"........

Erm, when did I say he hasn't had a good tournament? Although I disagree that he had a "brilliant" game yesterday. On the whole, he has had a good tournament but definitely not the best player of the tournament or even in the top 5, for that matter. Whether he'd have been better with a stronger midfield is of course conjecture. I am sure he would have and I'm not saying Robben, James, etc are better players than him but you can only go based on what happened and not "what would've happened". And in my opinion, there were at least 5-6 players more deserving of the Golden Ball (which includes a couple of goalkeepers).

Messi had far more completed dribbles and successful take ons than Robben, 46 compared to 34... .James comes in at 15, and they were knocked out before playing the semis. His duel percentage ( a comparison of aerial headers won, tackles won, and tackles evaded) was better than Robben and James (61%-60%-49%).

Robben had best passing percentage of them (86% Rob/80% Messi/76% James), but you will find his passes were the shortest on average.

Key passes, or passes that lead to a shot on target, Messi is far ahead - 22, to Robbens 16, and James' 9.

Additional chances created (ie leading to shots that weren't on target) - 23 Messi, 17 Robben and 11 James.

With the ball at their feet, Messi outscored Robben, beat more men on the floor, and made more chances with his passes.....

The only real stat he loses are goal scored and assists to James. But how many of them were actual goals of substance? One was a penalty, and I think 3 were scored very late in games where Colombia had already won. (3rd and 4th against Japan? last kick 3rd vs Greece?)....