FIFA World Cup 2018 chat thread

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Re: FIFA World Cup 2018 chat thread

Postby sussexpob » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:55 pm

1998 - Dominating the match? That's not how I remember it. I remember a decent first half, but pretty desperate defence for most of the second half. And penalties is theoretically a 50:50 shot, yet we lost. You can argue about Beckham's red card, but he was fool enough to retaliate right in front of the referee.


Argentina scored first with a very generous penalty. They equalized with that sucker punch free kick where they passed to the unmarked zanetti, and basically did nothing else the rest of the game despite having an 75 minutes with an extra player. Think Shearer at one point forced a good save out of Roa, Scholes missed the inside of the post by fractions of a cm, and Sol Campbell scored a perfectly good goal to win it late on that was disallowed for reasons still unknown. We deserved the goal, we had shown far more quality going forward even without Beckham on.

If a dodgy red card, the lack of cards for Argentina in a game they basically kick lumps out of us in, the disallowed goal and the dodgy penalty werent enough for you to see the referee might have had a really bad trip to London and didnt want us to win much, he then allowed the Argentinians to pick the ball out of the net and play straight on after the disallowed goal, essentially playing from the keeper straight out then stop for the free kick, which should have won them the game. England suddenly turned round to see Argentina on the edge of their box outnumbered, and it was only Darren Andertons superb tackle that saved the match. Anderton was one of the few players, probably 2-3, that had realised what was going on and had tracked back.
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2018 chat thread

Postby sussexpob » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:59 pm

bigfluffylemon wrote:2014 - Was an utter disgrace. One point, no wins, bottom of the group. Yes a tough group, but we didn't come close to getting out of it. We were humiliated


Utter disgarce is to lay it on very thick

We were probably the better team against Italy, but they just took their chances and provided quality when it mattered. Two moments of quality from Suarez settled it against Uruguay, who we pretty much outplayed for large sections. The Costa Rica game was basically a friendly by that point, I think Roy shoved out a load of bench players as we had been knocked out already.

A bit of extra luck or an extra chance taken in one game, we dont go home. It happens.
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2018 chat thread

Postby sussexpob » Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:07 pm

2010 - We lost 4-1 to Germany, and were completely outclassed in the second half. Even if the goal had been allowed, it would have been 4-2. What's more, if we hadn't been so crap as to draw with both the USA and Algeria, we would have won the group and not had to play Germany in the second round in the first place.


I think we pretty much dominated the USA, but Clint Dempsey blasted a shot from yards out that Rob Green threw into his own net, and that was that, turned a win into a draw. Algeria played like they had been told snipers would pick them off it they left their own final third, and shoved 11 men behind the ball..... you can say these are teams we should steam roller, but Algeria really should have knocked Germany out of the World Cup in 2014 in a game they had so many chances to end the match in. Cant be that bad is the run away World Champs nearly lost to them.

As for the Germany game, it was England who pretty much dominated much of the second half. It was only when Germany scored the 3rd and England gave up, that the tide changed. Germany had dominated much of the first half, but had the goal gone in it would have amounted to nothing.

What you have to think it, England had come back into the game and put Germany under pressure for 10 maybe 15 minutes at the end of the half. They had scored two goals. The tide, the momentum, the confidence..... it was all heading Englands way. The team talks in the dressing room are very different if you have just let what should be a game winning situation slip in a 5 minute spell where you concede two goals. England would have been energised, Germany much more likely to be struck a bit on the back foot.

England came out and Lampard wrapped the bar, and we really should have got back in until we committed more and more men up the field, and then germany picked us on the break.

The goal completely changed the whole tie. It changes what happens after it.
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2018 chat thread

Postby Gingerfinch » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:45 pm

sussexpob wrote:
1998 - Dominating the match? That's not how I remember it. I remember a decent first half, but pretty desperate defence for most of the second half. And penalties is theoretically a 50:50 shot, yet we lost. You can argue about Beckham's red card, but he was fool enough to retaliate right in front of the referee.


Argentina scored first with a very generous penalty. They equalized with that sucker punch free kick where they passed to the unmarked zanetti, and basically did nothing else the rest of the game despite having an 75 minutes with an extra player. Think Shearer at one point forced a good save out of Roa, Scholes missed the inside of the post by fractions of a cm, and Sol Campbell scored a perfectly good goal to win it late on that was disallowed for reasons still unknown. We deserved the goal, we had shown far more quality going forward even without Beckham on.

If a dodgy red card, the lack of cards for Argentina in a game they basically kick lumps out of us in, the disallowed goal and the dodgy penalty werent enough for you to see the referee might have had a really bad trip to London and didnt want us to win much, he then allowed the Argentinians to pick the ball out of the net and play straight on after the disallowed goal, essentially playing from the keeper straight out then stop for the free kick, which should have won them the game. England suddenly turned round to see Argentina on the edge of their box outnumbered, and it was only Darren Andertons superb tackle that saved the match. Anderton was one of the few players, probably 2-3, that had realised what was going on and had tracked back.


That game still ranks as one of the best I've seen for pure excitement, highs and in the end lows. I haven't seen the game for a while but I'm almost certain the Argentine penalty was the correct decision.
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2018 chat thread

Postby Durhamfootman » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:22 pm

and I'm almost certain that the Campbell goal should have stood

which was the tourno with the Lampard goal where the ball hit the underside of the bar and landed half way back to the net, but was ruled out for not crossing the line?

it easy to understand why England fans feel as though their team is always playing against 14 men. Something great injustice seems to be inflicted upon them in almost every tournament.

It may well be that all fans feel like this, but England fans probably have a much stronger case than most
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2018 chat thread

Postby sussexpob » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:32 pm

Gingerfinch wrote: That game still ranks as one of the best I've seen for pure excitement, highs and in the end lows. I haven't seen the game for a while but I'm almost certain the Argentine penalty was the correct decision.


I never give those ones where a striker steers into a keepers dive looking for contact. If he can avoid it and he isnt getting the ball, then why reward him just diving into the keeper and screaming for a penalty. Simeone is such a ****. If everyone played the game like him, there would be no one watching. dont know if the game has changed that much since, but if you do watch the highlights have a look at the first minute Ayala challenge on Owen. Brooking calls it a good tackle, you'd probably be shown a straight red for that now.

which was the tourno with the Lampard goal where the ball hit the underside of the bar and landed half way back to the net, but was ruled out for not crossing the line?


See a couple of posts above, Germany v England 2010 in South Africa
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2018 chat thread

Postby Durhamfootman » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:45 pm

bigfluffylemon wrote:
Durhamfootman wrote:Pat Nevin thinks England should be resting Kane for the 3rd group game (is that Belgium?), in order to defend deeper and counter attack with pace.

Not much chance of that happening, I would suggest.

Besides.... if he thinks we need to do that against Belgium, then he might as well suggest that England send Kane home after the first 2 group matches, because England would probably have to apply that principle to every match thereafter

silly idea


Not necessarily - it's probably predicated on the notion that England will have already qualified for the second round by the time they meet Belgium,

no it isn't..... he thinks that because Belgium have more quality up front, England will need to defend deep and therefore will need the pace of Vardy, in particular, plus the likes of Sterling and Rashford to hit them on the break and get behind their defenders

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44331299
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2018 chat thread

Postby sussexpob » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:46 pm

We havent even got into opposition players being allowed to punch balls in the net yet either.

The France 2004 Euro game was probably the one that got me the most mad. When Rooney was through on goal ready to pull the trigger for 2-0, and Mikael Silvestre just hacked him down from behind. The ref to this day is still the only person who knows why that wasnt a straight red. I have a French book about England v French sporting rivalries that even states its one of the most puzzling decisions in sporting history. So puzzling, its almost like it was knowingly biased, but hey well.

Beckham had his pretty well struck spot kick magnificantly saved by Barthez, and England then conceded two goals in stoppage time and lost.
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2018 chat thread

Postby Durhamfootman » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:48 pm

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Re: FIFA World Cup 2018 chat thread

Postby sussexpob » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:52 pm

Durhamfootman wrote: Not necessarily - it's probably predicated on the notion that England will have already qualified for the second round by the time they meet Belgium,

no it isn't..... he thinks that because Belgium have more quality up front, England will need to defend deep and therefore will need the pace of Vardy, in particular, plus the likes of Sterling and Rashford to hit them on the break and get behind their defenders

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44331299[/quote]

The point about two defensive midfielders and playing counter attack with pace of Vardy is, I think personally, pretty astute. Considering I have seen a few Belgium games recently since moving here, they have no full backs and quite slow defenders, I quite like the idea of that plan. Everything goes through the centre with Belgium, they dont have the overlapping full backs to spread it wide. Block the middle with two dms, and play like Leicester. Well up for it, think its a good idea. Horses for courses.

Not that Southgate understands tactics though.
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2018 chat thread

Postby sussexpob » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:58 pm

Durhamfootman wrote:England DNA

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44237903

2nd point


Until you have relegated a comfortable Premier League side at the first attempt, after burning best part of 30 million on a single player who ended up in the Qatari Division 2 only 18 months after you signed him, maybe you should pipe down.

Leave this stuff to the experts, Durham.
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2018 chat thread

Postby Durhamfootman » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:10 pm

I think it's a good idea in theory too, but in the KO's (certainly after the round of 16), England would probably have to apply the same tactic, for the same reasons, which is why I question whether England would do it. Given that Kane is the captain, they will have to find a way to play with pace with Kane in the side, not leave him out. Nevin references Ramsey leaving Greaves out, but Ramsey hadn't just made Greaves captain, either

besides... Kane is pretty much the first England player in years and years that doesn't take every good shooting opportunity and either blaze the ball over the bar, or gently lob it straight into the arms of a stationary keeper.

of course if we get Spain, your mate and mine..... Gentle Sergio...... will just break Kane's arm, or pop his knee, or something, in the first 20 mins, so England might have to try a system that doesn't include him anyway
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2018 chat thread

Postby Durhamfootman » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:12 pm

sussexpob wrote:
Leave this stuff to the experts, Durham.

what have I done? I'm just pointing this out, because I'd not heard of it before
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2018 chat thread

Postby sussexpob » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:18 pm

Durhamfootman wrote:
sussexpob wrote:
Leave this stuff to the experts, Durham.

what have I done? I'm just pointing this out, because I'd not heard of it before


I was hoping the first line indicated that it was a joke. How is Southgate qualified to decide on how all levels of our national game should be playing in terms of style and tactics, when his managerial career was pretty sh^t.
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Re: FIFA World Cup 2018 chat thread

Postby Durhamfootman » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:32 pm

ah right... I'm with you... bit dim, sadly

Southgate isn't the only architect, of course, but he was part of the committee that dreamt this up.

http://www.thefa.com/news/2014/dec/04/e ... dna-launch

I obviously don't pay enough attention, because this passed me by at the time. It reads well, though, and I'm glad that they have at least attempted to develop a strategy for improving England's abysmal record at international competitions.

whether it is any good, remains to be seen. They are targeting 2020, seemingly so we'll find out then, but I can say that in the last few months i have become more optimistic about England's chances this time than I have been since probably 2002.

It might all unravel very quickly, and if it does I probably won't be surprised, but I've felt excited during England matches this year and that hasn't happpened for a very long time
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