Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

International management is pretty simple. You pick your best team, find a formation that people fit into, and there you go.... England have an enormous stock of young wingers, including one he didnt start in both games who is rated in the current top 10 players in the world by Transfermarkt (which is a good objective site to rank worldwide opinion).... why do we need out of the box thinking like this?

dogma?

although picking the best players is no good if they can't gel, get on, or complement each other. We squandered a golden generation hopelessly trying to find a formation that suited them all and ended up with an England team that was much less than the sum of its individual parts, so it perhaps isn't quite as easy as it ought to be. Once ego's start getting in the way, I think it becomes difficult to build a 'team'

England always seemed to be consumed by nerves, so they froze. Maybe a good manager would stop that happening. But it always happened.

I think a good manager would stop that happening

look at Sarina W and the lionesses. She was very proactive in the Spain QF when England fell behind. As well as the substitutions she pushed the CB up as a striker and somehow it all worked, I suspect the manager making changes settled the team nerves. If the manager appears to be making the decisions, appears to take charge of the situation, then the players are free to just play the football. If they then do that anything becomes possible.

If the England men start dropping deeper to protect a one goal lead and the manager does nothing to correct that, which he doesn't ever seem to do, then they just keep dropping ever deeper until they concede an equaliser.

whatever the reasons, the women seemed to believe they could still win when they went behind, and the men just hoped they could somehow hang on when they took an early lead.

maybe that's it.... Sarina's players believe they will win and Sir G's just hope they can. Either way it's absolutely down to the manager

sussexpob wrote:I assume we will now beat Italy at a moment of deep transition for them, and beat a Ukraine team with 10 players who cant play every week, and he will be hailed as a genius, only for some second rate power to knock us out of a semi-final after his tactical bungles.

'twas ever thus, surely? Qualify relatively comfortably, wobble through the group stage with at least one tepid performance against a team we should easily beat on paper, go out in the knockouts to the team we come up against of any real quality, even if on paper it's even or England are even favourites?

The only times that doesn't seem to happen are when we crash out catastrophically.

Scotland roll Spain 2-0 and gives them a great chance of qualifying after taking 6 points from their first 2 matches

usual story.... Spain had 75% possession yet managed fewer shots than their opponents

Arthur Crabtree wrote:England always seemed to be consumed by nerves, so they froze. Maybe a good manager would stop that happening. But it always happened.

I think there is a tendency in the English media to find reasons that are easier to consume than the reality. Often when we get knocked out, you get someone like Ian Wright coming out and suggesting players need to go to Afghanistan to learn patriotism or some nonsense like that, as if a lack of caring or something else is the reason we lost. More often than not, we just arent that good, which is a fact that is seemingly hard to swallow.

I think in my lifetime, the 1998 and 2002 WC period was the best chance we had to win a tournament up until 2018. Between that, we just werent that good. But in 2002 we ran into the last great Brazil team with three all-time legends, and in 1998 we ran into Diego Simeone's acting performance in a game we really deserved to win, and should have. But by 2010, Capello was doing about as well as he could with a terrible squad. Ok, we had the odd player here and there, but so many weaknesses.

Southgate has inherited the best team since 2002, and in individual quality, has the most WC talent in my lifetime.... in this case though, we havent been knocked out by Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and Rivaldo, but by a Croatia team with Modric and 10 other players that wouldnt get into our side. You have to fault the manager for that - his tactics in that semi final in 2018 were terrible.

I dont think its nerves at all. These players play in the world's most followed league. Many of these players excel at Champions League level and have won it. If they didnt have the moral fibre to deal with the highest levels of pressure, then they couldnt do that.

I mean, at the end of the day Lionel Messi has missed 30 penalties in his career including ones that put Argentina out of major tournaments. Mbappe, who has been the best player in the world post 2018 WC and dominated both tournaments... well he knocked out France in the last Euro's missing his penalty. The best players in the world miss penalties. I dont think you can conclude much about that.

Durhamfootman wrote:although picking the best players is no good if they can't gel, get on, or complement each other. We squandered a golden generation hopelessly trying to find a formation that suited them all and ended up with an England team that was much less than the sum of its individual parts, so it perhaps isn't quite as easy as it ought to be. Once ego's start getting in the way, I think it becomes difficult to build a 'team'

Yes, I totally agree. My point about picking the best team was not suggesting the best 11 quality players you have, but the best in each natural position to fit the style you want to play. In reality 99% of teams play some variation of 3-5-2 or 4-3-2-1 in modern football, so finding the shape should not be hard. You just need to pick the best talent to fit a shape, and then set the game plan based on conventions - like you need to press high, every successful team does that (Southgate doesnt). You need to transition quick, etc etc.

Durhamfootman wrote:dogma?

Southgate has no week in, week out experience of managing top level players, and it seems that he sticks to quite a traditional expectation of how his squad behaves, and this leads to invented problems. The best manager of his generation (Pep Guardiola) will tell you that Phil Foden is a model professional, and he manages his workload to be available for all of City's toughest matches - Southgate has never gave him an uninterrupted run in the team, and once sent him home from Iceland for having woman in his room in Iceland while on international games, questioning his professionalism.

I think any modern day manager picks their battles. I guess Pep would turn a blind eye to a 20 year old shagging some air hostesses in his downtime, because in actual fact, it makes no difference to how he trains or performs. Southgate has never forgiven Foden it seems. But in a crunch match vs a top team, any manager with a brain knows Foden is better than Maddie played out of position at left wing. None of this traditional nonsense plays out on the big stage.

Another example is Ben White. He's currently starting in an Arsenal team dominating the League. And yet he cant get into a squad where the only other option is a player already mentioned from Palace, who is in horrendous form. Arteta is the protege of the world's best manager, and seems so far to be a class manager at the highest level. And yet, he says Ben White is a model professional.... Southgate decided he can't pick him because he turned up to a team talk having not done some homework. Who do you trust? The man who relegated Middlesbrough in his own job, or the man who took an unfavoured team with half the budget of the top four, and leads the PL by 8 points ? I know who I trust.

The game and its players have changed. I think any manager who works everyday with modern superstar players realises they might have a bit of attitude, might be spending all their free time on Instagram, might be difficult or arrogant.... but thats football. Ronaldo might be a total plank and difficult to manage, but he scored 50 goals a season at his prime. At the end the only currency in football is quality of output

I dont think Southgate thinks that way. He seems to think individual quality is worse than how team environments flourish. But that doesnt play out at the top level.

sussexpob wrote:
I think there is a tendency in the English media to find reasons that are easier to consume than the reality. Often when we get knocked out, you get someone like Ian Wright coming out and suggesting players need to go to Afghanistan to learn patriotism or some nonsense like that, as if a lack of caring or something else is the reason we lost. More often than not, we just arent that good, which is a fact that is seemingly hard to swallow.

Well, yes, the players get hyped before they get there and rubbished when they get back. But I'm thinking of actions which don't necessarily need skill, but discipline. Like creating passing options through movement, or closing down space when they don't have the ball. Too often players with the ball would have no other option than to hit a long ball from back to front. Or a player out of position won't have another filling in. England players were often frozen to the spot.

Arthur Crabtree wrote: Like creating passing options through movement

one of my biggest bugbears with England is the length of time it takes for a throw in. It's been a problem for ages. The full backs look for someone making a move to throw it to and find that nobody is, so they turn back and forth for ages looking for somewhere to throw the ball and after several stuttering moments, they give up and throw it back to the centre backs who pass the ball back to the keeper. The Italy game, both full backs got yellows for time wasting because the ref got fed up, but the truth is absolutely no-one made any sort movement for them to throw to. One of the 'all the way back to the keeper' throw ins the other day was from deep in opposition territory..... I mean it just makes no sense at all. Other teams get a throw in and the ball is back in play almost immediately, but for England it seems to take an age as everyone on the pitch stands around having a cuppa.

U21 Euro's final later today

Channel 4 have picked up the TV rights if anyone wants to watch it

ha, ha....... well done boys...... 1-0 winners

I confess my heart sank with 10 seconds of the 96 mins remaining when VAR took an interest in the Spanish striker going down in the box like he'd been shot after the ref waved it away. The Strauss invective rolled around and rolled around (even getting in the way of another Spain attack), then when the ref got dragged to screen to be shown footage of the butterfly wing brushing the player's laces and pointed to the spot, he was up on hs feet like a 100m sprinter bursting out of the blocks so he could take the pen.

The only hope I had was that he'd had umpteen opportunities to score in the first half, but Trafford didn't have to make a save until halfway through the second. I didn't dare say that out loud, of course, but the keeper saved the pen and then saved the follow up strike as well

Anthony Gordon got the POTT award, just to put the icing on it

Women's Euro champions last year

U21 Euro champions this year

just need the senior men to wrap up the hat trick next year..................



oh dear...



what a disappointment that's going to be