Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17480035
Celtic are to contest the proposed changes, feeeling that it as "disrespectful" that the 10 SPL clubs met without their knowledge. Here's some quotes which gave me a few giggles:
Lawwell said: "They talk of a more competitive league.

"Well, the Icelandic and Welsh leagues are competitive but it is the presence of the Old Firm which makes Scottish football different."

"We are not against protecting the lower clubs.

"The quality of Scottish football could be further weakened to the point that we won't have any European context at all."

"Not being invited to the meetings of the other 10 clubs is disappointing and disrespectful, given what Celtic and Rangers bring to the game,

its kind of a no win situation i think.

despite rangers current situation them and celtic are the dominant teams in scottish football and whether the other clubs like it or not they are dependent on the old firm for revenue. would sky or espn pay for the rights to the spl without the old firm, of course they wouldn't. in addition all the other clubs only get full houses when they play celtic or rangers. i'm originally from dunfermline and used to follow them home and away through most of the 80s and into the early 90s and every week you would see more supporter buses leave the town to go to the rangers or celtic games than to follow the home town team.

is it right that celtic and rangers should have the power of veto over the other clubs, probably not, but i cant see the other clubs winning a fight against them if it came to that.

Scottish football as a whole though is of a poor quality through such power held by the old firm. I know there are a lot more reasons behind a lack of quality in scottish football but Rangers and Celtic's dominance over the SPL is unhealthy. Both Rangers and Celtic are average teams at best, their supporters use the old firm derbies to do nothing but hurl sectarian abuse at each other and widen the divides already availing in scottish society. The SPL would be better off competitively and financially if Rangers and Celtic didn't have such a hold over it.

better off competitively yes , i would disagree it would be better off financially as it wouldn't attract the same level of sponsorship , i would doubt it would be able to sell itself to TV without the old firm which would further affect sponsorship

and i am saying that as someone who was a supporter of a non-old firm team

its too easy to blame rangers and celtic for the problems of other clubs when quite simply the money isn't there now and for years the other clubs were happy to just rely on their share of the money that came as a result of the status of celtic and rangers

i remember dunfermline's first ever season in the SPL , we were getting crowds of 10,000-15,000 every home game and 20,000+ when the old firm were in town. i bet atm they are lucky to be getting over 5,000

i can see where your coming from, the clubs have used the Old Firm to their needs, however such a stance in the long term is going to hinder them. If Rangers go bust that'll be one serious blow to the SPL and to Celtic (who themselves profit from the rivalry). If any other football club in Scotland has any ambitions to improve on and off the pitch and to attract better sponsorship they need to push through the proposed changes to even the balance of power away from the old firm.

I'll be the first to admit that English football is hardly the perfect model to look at, especially after the plight of teams like Pompey, Plymouth, Rusden and Diamonds and Port Vale to name a few, however in the long term if one or two of the big four in the EPL went bust there would still be sufficient quality and talent to attract multi million sponsorship. If both Rangers and Celtic left the SPL or went bust how would teams in the SPL survive or attract any sort of big money? For the long term future of the SPL and the slowly dwindling quality of Scottish football the remaining 10 eams in the SPL need to take a stand and start redressing the balance, if not they could too be dragged down with or without the old firm.

thing is i dont think that the old firm are bad for scottish football per se

yes it can be viewed as unhealthy that they have been so dominant and its a bit demoralising for fans of other clubs to know they are never really go win anything which does affect attendances

when i was following dunfermline we were getting bigger crowds in the first division when we were pushing for promotion or winning the league than we ultimately did in the SPL when we were looking like getting relegated so theres no doubt that having extra competition could help get the fans back for the provincial teams

one of the big issues however is infrastructure and the programmes for getting youngsters into the game. holland has a similar population to scotland and look at the difference they have in developing players, because they have the infrastructure and the organisation to support that, scotland doesn't

alot of clubs missed the boat when the money was available to set up better structures and instead went short term and tried to bring in better players for immediate "success" instead of trying to invest in their future and altho this is sad to say for alot of them its maybe too late to do it now

Infastructure does play a key part, looking at the way the Germans and the Dutch have set up from grass roots up has reaped results in the long term. Looking at football structure in the UK it seems patchy at best. England has been patchy at best, Scotland has been poor and Wales has produced quality but not enough to compete at higher levels. The poor planning of the lower teams when the money was there and a lack of long term vision has played a part, however the ignorance of Celtic to claim that the old firm is what makes their league 'different' from other leagues in bigheaded at the least.

Both Celic and Rangers are average to poor at best, what they fail to realize is that even with them Scottish football isn't hugely competitive in European competition. Celtic lost to Sion and only made the group stages because Sion had to be kicked out and Rangers didn't fare any better. If they do push through the changes or not it seems that the scottish FA and the top clubs in the SPL need to put more effort into grass roots and at youth level otherwise the mire it's in won't get any better over the years, examples like cricket in Kenya and english football over the years give creedence to that.

Most Scottish footballers of a good quality are plying their trade in Premier League and Championship football, Walter Smith found that quite concerning whilst at Rangers in his recent spell.

I expect Celtic to be frightened with competition, considering their attendances dwindled to around 28,000 when Neil Lennon had a poor start to his managerial career.

The whole of Scottish Football is stuck in last century, junior teams can't even win promotion to the football league unless if elected and it's that which stunts growth.

Desktop Hoggy wrote:Most Scottish footballers of a good quality are plying their trade in Premier League and Championship football, Walter Smith found that quite concerning whilst at Rangers in his recent spell.

I expect Celtic to be frightened with competition, considering their attendances dwindled to around 28,000 when Neil Lennon had a poor start to his managerial career.

The whole of Scottish Football is stuck in last century, junior teams can't even win promotion to the football league unless if elected and it's that which stunts growth.

the last thing the scottish league needs atm is more growth tbh

there are already 40 clubs in the current league structure and that is unsustainable given the population bases and the amount of money around

the current problems have happened because the cash cows that the old firm were on behalf of the rest of the league are now struggling themselves financially, unable to attract or keep the same quality of players they had been previosuly, bear in mind both old firm teams reached the final of the europa league(UEFA cup) fairly recently so the demise has only been within the last couple of years

the knock on effects of that demise are now threatening the whole of the game and the rest of the clubs are now suffering due to the complacency they had of assuming the old firm would continue to subsidise them, directly or indirectly, and now have nothing to fall back on

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17501490
The row continues, the Kilmarnok chairman comparing the movement to change the voting system to the Arab spring.

Quite a one-sided Scottish Cup Final.

The transfer embargo on Rangers seems to be a stickling point for the remaining bidders. Rangers appealed against it but this was recently rejected. Hearts future is also a bit uncertain as Vladimir Romanov is looking to sell the club.

Different rules obviously apply in Scotland, but if it was in England they would probably have had to start in the lower non-league.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18407309

that still might happen , but given its up to the other clubs and they will want the revenue from the visits from rangers fans during the season i think its likely they will vote to allow them to start in the SPL. would serve rangers right if they did have to re-apply to join the league and start at the bottom but that would be like turkeys voting for xmas by the other clubs.

absolute farce that a club of that stature has allowed itself to get into this situation

craig whyte is being painted as the main villain and he looks like hes a bit of a dodgy character but most of the tax debt was accrued under the previous ownership trying to pull a fast one