Racism in English football?

[sussexpob]

I can see Paul Ince is moaning about the Rooney Rule coming into British football. Is his social commentary is representative of his footballing management skills, no wonder he struggles to find work.

We need a rule to improve ethnic minority management opportunities?

400,000 French people in the UK..... 1/150 people.... over represented.
Portuguese people in UK.... 0.8% of population.... over represented.
Spanish people..... 0.05% of population....over represented.
Chileans over represented.
Scottish... over represented.
Uruguayans? Argentinians? Over represented.

Or are these not counted as "ethnic minorities" because a honky is a honky?

[yuppie]

The Rooney rule can not work untill more Black players actually get there full coaching licenses.

From my understanding there are 209 people in the uk with Full Uefa License''s of which only 15 are had by black coaches. Not all these qualified coaches want to go into management, but want to stay coaching. Les Ferdinand would be an example. There needs to be more black coaches for the Rooney rule to work, otherwise it will be the same people going for the interviews everytime. Maybe this is what Paul Ince wants to happen, in which case they may as well call it the interview Paul Ince rule.

What really needs to be looked at is why so many players are not going on to get their coaching qualifications whilst nearing the end of their careers. This is the area that needs addressing.

[sussexpob]

What really needs to be looked at is why so many players are not going on to get their coaching qualifications whilst nearing the end of their careers. This is the area that needs addressing.

I would have thought the first "area that needs addressing" was proof of racism. The fact is, people seem to equate a lack of black managers to racism as an automatic assumption. Jason Roberts for instance coming out and saying its a deep problem cannot give one example at all. Paul Ince says he wants the Rooney Rule, but as a man who had pretty much only achieved promotion with a heavily funded MK Dons team in League Two (when the chairman pumped in probably 20 times the budget of other teams, and bought them a huge stadium) got his opportunity to manage a Premier League team with pretty limited experience (a team that Hughes had nearly got to the Champions League not long before, so no mug team either), and was in employment for seasons after despite failure after failure. He cant complain of racism, surely? He was a manager while he was still playing, up until about 9 months ago, but is now simply damaged goods.

As said previously, hardly any owners are English anymore, and those that aren't are largely ethnic minorities as classed in this country (Jewish, Asian). I mean last year the few white "non minority" owners in the Premier League I think included an American owner who was credited with his ground breaking anti-racial approach in basketball leadership, and an English Chef who hired a black man!!

Where is the evidence of black people being denied coaching opportunities? Is there cause and effect here? Or is this people in the media or certain organisations trying to make a professional name for themselves (good way to make Jason Roberts a media career by pinning this flag to his mast....)

I mean one consideration that is apparent is thus.... the amount of black players maybe 30% now, but has raised considerably over the last two decades, and many black players are foreign and might not see their post playing days in England. Garth Crookes and Roberts saying "there are 30% of black players, there should be 30% black coaches" would do well to think that, out of 40 year old retired players, how many English blacks are there? I think two decades ago the figures I can find suggest about 8% of players in England were black, so the actual ratio of players to managers out of those retired and available is actually a much lower one. As stated, how many foreign players are black and end up wanting to stay here and coach? Tino Asprilla played about two decades ago, I think he played for 8 clubs after leaving England, in about 5 countries!!! Is he one of the lost black players not given an opportunity?

[braveneutral]

I can see Paul Ince is moaning about the Rooney Rule coming into British football. Is his social commentary is representative of his footballing management skills, no wonder he struggles to find work.

We need a rule to improve ethnic minority management opportunities?

400,000 French people in the UK..... 1/150 people.... over represented.
Portuguese people in UK.... 0.8% of population.... over represented.
Spanish people..... 0.05% of population....over represented.
Chileans over represented.
Scottish... over represented.
Uruguayans? Argentinians? Over represented.

Or are these not counted as "ethnic minorities" because a honky is a honky?

0.8 sounds high. Are there really that many Portuguese in England?

[sussexpob]

I can see Paul Ince is moaning about the Rooney Rule coming into British football. Is his social commentary is representative of his footballing management skills, no wonder he struggles to find work.

We need a rule to improve ethnic minority management opportunities?

400,000 French people in the UK..... 1/150 people.... over represented.
Portuguese people in UK.... 0.8% of population.... over represented.
Spanish people..... 0.05% of population....over represented.
Chileans over represented.
Scottish... over represented.
Uruguayans? Argentinians? Over represented.

Or are these not counted as "ethnic minorities" because a honky is a honky?

0.8 sounds high. Are there really that many Portuguese in England?

There was traditional a lot in South London, in fact I think there is an area called Little Portugal south of the Thames. More recently I think in areas of East Anglia and Lincolnshire there is a big community, somewhere like Thetford up to 30-40%.... they came over as seasonal fruit pickers a lot for companies that dealt out of Brazil and stayed.

[braveneutral]

I didn't know that, just thought I would have come across more I suppose. Very interesting statistic.

[Alviro Patterson]

I can see Paul Ince is moaning about the Rooney Rule coming into British football. Is his social commentary is representative of his footballing management skills, no wonder he struggles to find work.

We need a rule to improve ethnic minority management opportunities?

400,000 French people in the UK..... 1/150 people.... over represented.
Portuguese people in UK.... 0.8% of population.... over represented.
Spanish people..... 0.05% of population....over represented.
Chileans over represented.
Scottish... over represented.
Uruguayans? Argentinians? Over represented.

Or are these not counted as "ethnic minorities" because a honky is a honky?

[yuppie]

This is very good to see, though it might be asked why does he still have a job

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/29525073

[yuppie]

I know its not in England, and perhaps we should actually have a racism in european football.

Another one from Russia, and he still has a job

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/29880985

On the same day Yaya gets rascist abuse on his twitter feed.

[mikesiva]

'Police have confirmed they are investigating claims Manchester City's Yaya Toure was racially abused on Twitter. Midfielder Toure, 31, reactivated his account with the social network on Monday after a five month absence. Anti-discrimination group Kick It Out said it had "received complaints" about two tweets of a "racist nature" and had informed the police on Monday. Greater Manchester Police (GMP) said: "Officers are currently investigating." Earlier, a Kick it Out spokesman said Toure had been back on Twitter "for a matter of hours" when he "received abuse of an appalling nature".'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29891488

[mikesiva]

'There are only 19 black and ethnic minority (BME) coaches in the 552 'top' coaching positions at professional English clubs, a report has found. BME coaches take up 3.4% of those positions despite at least 25% of players coming from BME backgrounds. Findings of the study, carried out by the Sports Person's Think Tank, will be revealed at Westminster on Monday but have already been seen by BBC Sport. Sports Minister Helen Grant said the findings are "appalling and worrying". She added: "It's going to take a concerted effort by everyone in football to get the sea change that we need." The think tank will announce its recommendations at Monday's meeting with MPs and the sports minister in London. The report was carried out by Dr Stephen Bradbury at Loughborough University, and examined what it took to be the top six coaching and management positions at all 92 professional football clubs in the English leagues.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29976832

'The Football League, under the guidance of chairman Greg Clarke, is conducting a review into how it can increase the numbers of BME coaches and managers among its member clubs. Clarke has been criticised by the Professional Footballers' Association for his failure to keep a promise to hold a vote at the Football League's 2013 annual general meeting on a proposal to conduct a trial of a version of the NFL's Rooney Rule.'

[sussexpob]

'Police have confirmed they are investigating claims Manchester City's Yaya Toure was racially abused on Twitter. Midfielder Toure, 31, reactivated his account with the social network on Monday after a five month absence. Anti-discrimination group Kick It Out said it had "received complaints" about two tweets of a "racist nature" and had informed the police on Monday. Greater Manchester Police (GMP) said: "Officers are currently investigating." Earlier, a Kick it Out spokesman said Toure had been back on Twitter "for a matter of hours" when he "received abuse of an appalling nature".'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29891488

Not sure that's relevant to the sport....

[sussexpob]

'There are only 19 black and ethnic minority (BME) coaches in the 552 'top' coaching positions at professional English clubs, a report has found.

I count 35 managers alone who are non-English or non-white. Interesting?

Findings of the study, carried out by the Sports Person's Think Tank, will be revealed at Westminster on Monday but have already been seen by BBC Sport. Sports Minister Helen Grant said the findings are "appalling and worrying".

Its very worrying and appalling, I agree..... a think tank reporting to government that doesn't even understand the terminology or definition of what its testing.

Former Reading, Blackburn and Wigan striker Jason Roberts, 36, is a founding member of the think tank.

"It appears that football has lost successive generations of potential coaches and managers simply because they are black or from other ethnic minority backgrounds," he wrote in the report.

Oh so the "think tank" is actually someone with a previous biased view who has used the issue to forward his fledging media career..... and once again

Any evidence to back up this claim?

BBC Sport understands the FA is not aware of any complaints of discrimination and has previously stated it would encourage anyone with a complaint to come forward and report them.

Ah, so nope, no evidence and no complaints from anyone

[sussexpob]

I also wont take any racial crusading from a think tank who does not identify differences in ethnicity along the lines of anything but skin colour. This is not about "ethnical" differences or fairness, this is about black and white, and the quite frankly horrible net opinion of the above is that white people are all the same, whether or not they are Chilean or Italian, or born in London. Didn't think we spoke the same language, had the same culture, but there you go.... same skin colour, the same.

I mean lets just go back a few steps. At the moment "racism" in popular English culture is dominated by right wing leaning political parties who are crusading to limit European migration to the country, and limiting how many jobs are given to these people. So I cant see why barriers to employment for a white Italian are any different from a black Englishman, if anything the current soco-political climate dictates that the opposite would occur.

At the end of the day:-

1. Positive discrimination is simply racism under another banner and is not meritocracy. I would not be happy to find that I person in the same interview room was there by the colour of their skin, and not by anything else.

2. Before an action is warranted, proof of a problem needs to exist.... not just buzzword *modded* that has no evidence.

3. Certain people in the press should be held accountable for group several ethnical backgrounds as "whites", because I find this very offensive.

[SaintPowelly]

Jason Roberts is a parasite who plays the "look at me, i'm black" card at every possibility to keep his name in circulation and face on TV.

Koeman subbed the black Sadio Mane for the white Shane Long on Saturday, must be a racist.