The Ashes: Perth.

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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby bigfluffylemon » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:38 am

sussexpob wrote:
bigfluffylemon wrote: Perth is a very difficult place to play well, but historically that has been the case for Australians as well as touring players - those not used to the WACA's bounce have not always thrived. Players from WA usually do well, but from other states it's a bit of a toss-up


Mike Hussey's century innings in 2010 is a good example of this. He was leaving balls that would be considered suicidal on other pitches, but I remember him saying in the post match interview that at Perth he would always leave balls on length only, and not the line. While others would be playing at fuller balls on the stumps, he had the experience to know the bounce carried a lot of relatively full balls over the stumps.


Absolutely. Gilchrist was another who thrived at the WACA because he was a state cricketer there - I still remember his 57 ball hundred in 2006. Shudder.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby yuppie » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:37 am

I would be very surprised to see the Waca offer anything close to its once famous bounce in December.

Hopefully it wont be anything like the pitch that was served up against NZ 2 years ago, but with Australia potentially picking M Marsh, it would suggest that they are expecting a pretty flat wicket again. SA had a great third innings last year to set up their massive victory.

I would be surprised if either team got blown away.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby sussexpob » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:09 pm

Would be a shame for the last WACA Perth test to be a pancake festival, but it probably will. I know that in the past they had problems with the pitch after the grass on it caught some disease, and the dying grass essentially produced a layer of dead plant matter that absorbed the force of the ball. The initial result was the grass releasing moisture, and a few pitches were quite damp, but at least this meant you had swing and a lot of seam movement to counter act the loss in pace.

In 2013, I think they took the move to try and dry out that layer by baking it in the sun, but the test pitch ended up having canyon like cracks appearing by day 5, and I believe after that test they took the opinion that it would be better to try to fill those cracks out otherwise they could end up having a very dangerous pitch on their hands. Thats when the pitches started become lifeless. I know a few WA guys playing on those wickets complained that there was no evidence the cracks really had much of an effect, so they seemed to be trading rubbish flat pitches for good ones on a misapprehension.

Like when the pitches were damp, and with the stadium only going to host one more high profile match, they might bake the life out of it, forget about the long term problems that will do with overdrying it and the with the cracks, and we get a lightening style pitch
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby sussexpob » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:16 pm

The last thing you want at Perth is a flat pitch, because its arguable that there is another ground in the world where you get value for shot making like the WACA. The outfield is usually the quickest you will find, meaning even thick edges, flicks, blocked shots etc that find half a gap can beat well positioned fielders. If the ball isnt doing anything, then you can rack up quickly here. A stat I didnt know, but read recently..... 6 of the quickest 9 test centuries have scored at Perth, apparently, just to add weight to that.

As a batter, you have to be willing to see out the initial 30 minutes and get used to the pace and bounce, because scoring once in will be quick. As a bowler, you cannot be off the mark and get carried away with trying to be ultra aggressive, you are going to go for big runs if you do.

I think Jimmy went at ODI run rates last time here. Kept on trying to find swing by pitching it too full, and simply got carted around. You have to bowl fuller at Perth, sometimes very full on bouncy wickets, but not half volley length as England seemed to want to do last time
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby yuppie » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:53 pm

Fair points SP.

It is a shame the WACA is the way it is now. As you say patience will be the key here for the bowlers. Playing in December does the ground no favours.

The last thing the public will want is a high scoring bore draw.

Bancroft has already made a stack of runs at his home ground this year, and Warner has made some big scores here as well. M Marsh has also batted very well here this year. Looking at Shield results, there has been some big scores, but i notice WA did collapse against SA, so fingers crossed it wont be all about the big scores.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby sussexpob » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:29 pm

I might be wrong, but I think the stadium they were building in Perth was supposed to host this test when the tour was initially planned, but said stadium ran into funding problems and overshot its intended opening date considerably. Something to do with the fact the stadium was greenlighted on federal funding of the project, with an assumption Australia had already won the right to host the 2022 World Cup. When Qatar won it, they then had a huge ball ache building it, and the project has been delayed and put back a lot. Or thats what I have read.

The Stadium actually opens this week as a trial, so I am guessing the move to the WACA must have come pretty late if they are that close to finishing the project. I believe the ODI that follow have a game at the new stadium.

This might account for the WACA pitches being poor. The groundsman doesnt really know from one day to the next if hes preparing a pitch that will host games at all
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby Toby F » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:08 pm

There seems no end of theories about why the WACA lost its bounce several years ago. The one I heard on ABC radio was that the supply of original dark clay had run out and they couldn't find a new source. In any case, unfortunately the only thing with bounce about the WACA for the last decade or so has been the hype.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby yuppie » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:14 pm

Yeah from memory the new stadium was meant to be open for this test. Some of the other posters have mentioned that the Waca will still host test matches, just not against the big teams. I wonder where SA will fall into that. Change of venue might help Australia.

If Australia select both Marsh's then that will be 3 WA batsman in the side. Along with Warner and Smith who have made 100's here before. So in theory batting wise Australia have lots of experience of the Waca pitch.

Would be great if M Marsh can take his chance this time. The player he could be is what Australia has been missing. Though it is tough on Maxwell, for who maybe this was the wrong test to come along for. Maxwell has done what the selectors have asked for, but his off spin wont be as useful as Marsh mediums at the Waca.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:23 pm

England found Perth a bit hot last time. But then they found all the venues out of their pace comfort-zone.

But the larger problem on recent tours has been the reverse swing, particularly after lunch when the wind gets up. I know reverse shouldn't be influenced by the climatic conditions, but it seems to happen.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby yuppie » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:40 pm

What if anything will change in the England team in terms of personnel for this test?
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:28 pm

I doubt there'll be changes unless there are disciplinary issues.

An outlier might be Curran (or a longer shot, Wood) in for Woakes.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:29 pm

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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby GarlicJam » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:38 pm

sussexpob wrote:I might be wrong, but I think the stadium they were building in Perth was supposed to host this test when the tour was initially planned, but said stadium ran into funding problems and overshot its intended opening date considerably. Something to do with the fact the stadium was greenlighted on federal funding of the project, with an assumption Australia had already won the right to host the 2022 World Cup. When Qatar won it, they then had a huge ball ache building it, and the project has been delayed and put back a lot. Or thats what I have read.

The Stadium actually opens this week as a trial, so I am guessing the move to the WACA must have come pretty late if they are that close to finishing the project. I believe the ODI that follow have a game at the new stadium.

This might account for the WACA pitches being poor. The groundsman doesnt really know from one day to the next if hes preparing a pitch that will host games at all

This is the first I have heard of any of this, Sussex. As far as I know, the stadium development has been running fairly to schedule.

This Ashes series was mooted as the last at the WACA several years back now.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby sussexpob » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:39 pm

GarlicJam wrote:This is the first I have heard of any of this, Sussex. As far as I know, the stadium development has been running fairly to schedule.

This Ashes series was mooted as the last at the WACA several years back now.


From Reuters..... May 2017

Australia’s board had hoped the 60,000-seat venue in Burswood would be ready to host the Dec. 14-18 match but construction delays had ruled that out, CA Chief Executive James Sutherland said.“We knew that everything needed to come together but it was still disappointing,” Sutherland told reporters. ”We were really hoping that the test match could be played at this magnificent new stadium. “Nonetheless, there’s lots to look forward to.” Sutherland said he hoped Perth Stadium would be ready to host a one-day international between the teams scheduled for Jan. 28 but he all but ruled out any matches in the domestic Twenty20 “Big Bash” competition being played there before.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby sussexpob » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:52 pm

As far as I can quickly gather, the WA state government had in 2009 conceived the idea of building the stadium and had a sizable portion of the funding coming from federal sources as part of the World Cup bid, but when that was lost to Qatar the federal funding was sucked out of the project, and there has been a bit of an ongoing battle between the state and federal agencies about a commitment for the latter to provide money. It seems a stadium in Townsville in a similar project received government funding, and that peed off a lot of WAs.

After that, the state government essentially decided still to go ahead with the project, but the costs have ended up double what was originally budgeted, costing 1.6 billion dollars instead of the 800 originally set aside. With no federal or outside funding, the local government have obviously been shelled for that spiraling costs, which has lead to delays. It was assumed the project would be ready for this test, but that was apparent 7 months ago that it was not going to happen.

This is only a brief skim read, so it might not be 100% true picture, but it seems a very nuanced procedure.
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