Third Test: England v India at Trent Bridge, 18-22 August.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Don't think anyone other than an Indian understands SRT.

To me, he was one of a generation of great batters, but by no means unarguably superior to the others. But VK seems a different kind of player, with more elan and less orthodoxy. But he's got to get the volume of runs on the board to be comparable to the best players of the generation before him. He could do with some more match winning overseas hundreds too (like here at TB).

It might be easier to accept him as an ATG though, compared with his heavy scoring contemporary Steve Smith, because he is considerably easier on the eye.

SRT was in a weaker line up for India in the first half of his career, than VK is now, I think.

[backfootpunch]

Don't think anyone other than an Indian understands SRT.

To me, he was one of a generation of great batters, but by no means unarguably superior to the others. But VK seems a different kind of player, with more elan and less orthodoxy. But he's got to get the volume of runs on the board to be comparable to the best players of the generation before him. He could do with some more match winning overseas hundreds too (like here at TB).

It might be easier to accept him as an ATG though, compared with his heavy scoring contemporary Steve Smith, because he is considerably easier on the eye.

SRT was in a weaker line up for India in the first half of his career, than VK is now, I think.

I agree

Sachins longevity was remarkable but I never considered him to be better than Lara or Ponting, as good as but not obviously better

Kohlis record as Indian captain with the bat is very remarkable at this stage, question is whether he can maintain it

[Arthur Crabtree]

JB1 out of the series.

Fiver down that Vince gets a recall.

Gary ballance?

I read on another thread that Bob WIllis suggested Ian Bell!

And Malan has been touted...

The cricketing undead.

[westoelad]

Cricket, lovely cricket https://mobile.twitter.com/bbctms/statu ... 05/video/1

[Dr Cricket]

TBH Tendulkar probably had 5 or 6 different careers by all report he was very attacking and batting with a lot of flair in his early days and early 90s, plus not sure I would count the batting that strong pre 1998 ish.
only really from 2000 did india get a strong batting line up which funny enough coincided with Tendulkar Elbow injury which caused him to change his entire game plan and he became more defensive so in terms of support Kohli and Tendulkar probably the same really.

Tendulkar was more of an all rounder batsman, could bat everywhere and could do any role attack or defence, spin based or pace based, but in general scoring runs or hundreds was everything for him.

Wrote last week in another forum about Kohli, Smith and root and how Kohli probably is rated higher than Root and Smith because of the flair and excitement he brings when he bats, very lara like as well in that aspect.

probably rated lara higher than Tendulkar because of the way Lara played.
Not sure about Ponting though not sure he really in the same class as the other 2 and him playing for a strong team probably contributed to him having a good career.
was poor in the 90s and had 4-5 insane years and that is about it really not sure he really matches the achievements of Tendulkar or lara.

At the moment Kohli is far ahead of the others with only smith being a contender and with his odd technique and Smith not really being a batsman that people will pay to bat or even enjoy watching him, suspect Kohli will always be ahead of him in the way Lara was often the marquee player of the 90s/00s.

Root really needs to start watching from kohli though, someone with his ability should be matching kohli and not so far behind that he might not even be in the same grouping as him.

If I was a selector or high up in ECB, I would really considering Sacking Root as a captain to just make sure he actually produces runs for England and he gets big hundreds and actually scores 400-500 runs in series etc.
Root should be dominating and winning series for england with the bat, he should be scoring 200 runs etc in a match or 500-600 runs in a 4-5 match series.

Not sure him being captain is helping him at the moment and it is probably costing england runs and games since root output is probably going down.
Wouldn't surprise me if Root captaincy is like Sangakkara keeping in Test.
pretty certain now Root would be scoring more runs if he wasn't captain now.

[bigfluffylemon]

Blech.

Why do we keeping picking the same top 7 when they keep failing? The batting has been consistently hopeless for years.

Firstly sack Ramps. He's obviously useless.

Cook has had a great career, and I've been a fan of his for a long time, but it's looking very much like time to go. He's still got several years biffing county bowlers to all parts, but he just doesn't have it at test level any more. The only thing keeping him in the side is the lack of alternatives. The big innings he has played over the last few years show how much England need a strong start - when Cook's made runs, England have usually posted a good total. But that's becoming rarer and rarer.

The rest of them apart from Root all average well below 40, and most below 35. Bairstow had one good year, Stokes had a good 2 years I guess, but neither of them are top 6 material at present. The rest are hopeless. If this is really the best top 7 the 18 counties can produce between them, the system is deeply, deeply broken.

Every victory we've had in the last three years has been on the back of swing and seam bowling from Anderson, Broad, Woakes and Stokes getting the opposition out for a below par score, so our crap batting didn't matter so much (apart from that one Moeen 10-fer, maybe).

Sack the lot of the top 7 apart from Root. The batting can't get much worse.

[sussexpob]

only really from 2000 did india get a strong batting line up which funny enough coincided with Tendulkar Elbow injury

I dont really agree with that at all. Ganguly and Dravid must appear around 1995. Both played in the 95 (maybe 96) tour of England. The former exploded into test cricket back in those days, Id have to guess by 2000s hed played a lot of tests and ODIs and was batting at very impressive scoring rates/averages (hed have to have been averaging 50 in tests for his first half a decade). He'd certainly done enough by 2000 to be appointed captain for the first Indian match of the millennium. I believe Sourav's career then nosedived in 2000-01 after becoming captain, his batting fell apart badly. Never the same player after accepting that responsibility.

Dravid also performed very well to begin with. Again I might be wrong, but I seem to remember the constant narrative in the 90s was that Dravid could become a legend of the game if he could convert 50s. I believe he scored 50s for fun, but much like Joe Root, kept getting out before reaching 3 figures. Still, overall he must have been performing very well in terms of runs per innings.

So say but 1996 you have Dravid, Tendulkar, Ganguly all averaging around 50. You had Sidhu opening with a comfortble plus 40 average, and when he retired Ramesh filled the gap in the 90s very well (until Brett Lee on debut shattered his hand, along with his confidence). Azharuddin in the middle order. VVS Laxman struggling until that magnificent Sydney hundred right at the end of the century.

I wonder how many teams had that? As a comparison, the touring Aussie team to England in 1997 had Slats and Taylor who's careers fell of a cliff after 1995. Greg Blewitt had a pretty forgettable career. Justin Langer's career in the 90s was well under par, and its well noted the selectors didnt want to pick him, but Steve Waugh was adamant he'd come good (his career was saved by one of the worst lbw decisions you will ever seen at Adelaide in 2000 v India. By memory, Srinath had him middle of middle, no bat...umpire gave it not out, Langer scored a majestic 225 to win the series and never looked back). Mark Waugh produced very little in the late 90s after his earlier period. Michael Bevan flopped badly. Ian Healy's batting had all but disappeared. Damien Martyn and Matthew Hayden had been tried and both failed badly. Matthew Elliot never lived up on his promise, smashing the shield apart, but became edge central in tests. Gilchrist only appeared in the last game of the 90s, or last series. Ponting's first test hundred came in that series, a peach at Headingly in a damp, seaming conditions, but he must have generally not done brilliantly until those Asian team home series right at the end of the 90s, when he scored 3-4 100s in the Aussie summer. Steve Waugh = Tendulkar.

England's batting had one player averaging 40 (Thorpe). West Indies at the time chopped and changed a lot, especially 1-3. But names that come to mind are Sherwin Campbell, Stuart Williams, Clayton Lambert, Philo Wallace, Adrian Griffth, Suruj Ragoonath, David (might not have been David, scored a wonderful 50 at POS then looked like me batting for the rest of the series) Joseph, Carl Hooper, Ridley Jacobs..... Chanderpaul I dont think did well in the 90s, seem to remember it was at maybe Bridgetown in our tour in the late 90s he scored his first 100, on a pitch Ramps made 150 odd and England finally looked like a cricket team. I seem to remember there is an insane stat about Chanderpaul, that he took over 50 test caps to get his 2nd 100. After 2000s he turned into a quality bat, scored another 30 hundreds in a little over 100 tests.

I think to put West Indies in context at the time, by that 1999 series Ridley Jacobs was batting in the top 6, and Pedro Collins was coming in at 7 in some tests.... with a best score of 20 odd in FC cricket

Id say in this 96-00 period, it was generally acknowledged everywhere India had the best batting line up around, and sod all bowlers. Id put my mortgage on that point, everyone acknowledged it.

[Durhamfootman]

not Hameed?

at least England have the right number of keepers in their side now

although they'll probably call Foakes up

Pope is a keeper.

He's England's experienced middle order bat now. England batting is starting to resemble Journey's End.

even more reason to call Foakes up......... given that England obviously need 3 keepers.

Says where we are at when an England XI has 3 keepers and 2 all rounders in it

It suggests we might have an 8 man team otherwise

[sussexpob]

Probably a crap quote that no one will get, but Karl Barth once said that "when angels play for God, they play Bach; but when they sing for themselves, they play Mozart, and god is then delighted to listen to them"..........

Tendulkar is Bach. Lara is Mozart......

Kohli feels like the new Mozart.

[bigfluffylemon]

I get it

[Arthur Crabtree]

I didn't know SRT played the harpsichord?

[Arthur Crabtree]

Cold and cloudy in Nottingham.

[sussexpob]

I didn't know SRT played the harpsichord?

Got a fine Cello Suite, SRT.....

[Arthur Crabtree]

My preferred England side.

1
2
3
4. Root
5.
6. Stokes*
7. Bairstow
8
9
10. Broad
11. Anderson

*Though in my opinion Stokes should be suspended.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Pandya's bowling SR in the series is 25! In comparison, Anderson's is 39.