England Versus India - 1st Test (9 Nov - 13 Nov)

[Arthur Crabtree]

works both ways, l suppose. Dead rubber wins are probably more common than whitewashes.

[meninblue]

Maybe the motivation isn't there as the series drifts away, and selection gets more desperate.

England started with 0-1 against India when they toured. In fact they learned from the loss that two spinners are must here. The selection got better and Monty - Swann was opted as bowling pair in 2nd test. We know what happened then. So there are exceptions to desperate selections after team loses. Some teams have shown improved selection after losing first team.

[bigfluffylemon]

It's not uncommon for touring teams to struggle in the first game of a series then come back strongly as they get more used to the conditions/bowlers etc. England in India 2012 is just one example. South Africa in Australia 2012 another (drawn first test rather than a loss, but same principle).

It's often only when a side gets 2-0 or 3-0 up that the self-defeating factor comes into play, IMO. Even then, there is the dead rubber effect, where the winning team is less motivated, but the losing team is strongly motivated to give it their best to save some shred of dignity.

I would also suspect that the pitches will become more batsman friendly if India go 3-0 up.

I can see England sneaking a win. A good toss, a good first innings total (big ton from Cook or Root), some rain around making batting harder on days 2-3 and helping the seamers a bit, and a tricky 4th innings chase on a deteriorating pitch and a standout performance from an impact player (Stokes and Broad have past form in this area, and Buttler if he gets picked and can transfer ODI form to the test arena) could all swing one match England's way.

That said, I would not be at all surprised if it's 5-0. I just don't think it's a done deal. England are good enough that they can beat anybody on their day. They're woefully inconsistent and have some notable weaknesses, but when everything clicks they are very good.

[Arthur Crabtree]

It's often only when a side gets 2-0 or 3-0 up that the self-defeating factor comes into play, IMO. Even then, there is the dead rubber effect, where the winning team is less motivated, but the losing team is strongly motivated to give it their best to save some shred of dignity.

I think this is more what I was getting at.

I don't think many would claim that a 5-0 is absolutely the difference between the sides, just that at the present, the conditions are likely to lead to this outcome. And mainly because of Ashwin. An injury might be interesting.

I wonder if India will lose a long run of tosses, having won so many in a row.

[Arthur Crabtree]

The experience of Simon Kerrigan maybe prevented the possibility of Leach being called up for this tour (though in retrospect, the Lancastrian didn't get a second chance) but given what we've seen, this team/squad looks tempting. And has led to second thoughts on a batter who scores heavily on spin friendly pitches.

Cook/Duckett/Root/Hildreth/Bairstow/Stokes/Moeen/Woakes/Rayner/Broad/Leach
Haseeb/Buttler/Rashid/Ball/R.Jones

[Arthur Crabtree]

Post nightshift insomnia...

[Arthur Crabtree]

Given that after the England series, and possibly including Pakistan's visit to Australia, India will be untouchably the world number one ranked side for the forseeable future, how realistic is it to call this the best ever India team?

[Dr Cricket]

Only issue with saying pitches will get batting friendly later, is that chennai and Mumbai are India two toughest batting decks and India definitely aiming for 5-0 and only really 1 draw without rain in the last 5-6 yrs.

And Arthur no, the 2011 India number 1 side better, let not forget they number 1 ranking was achieved on overseas performances.
Between 2006-2010 India hardly lost Home or away.

[Aidan11]

I'm confident we can avoid 5-0 but we will lose the series.

[alfie]

Given that after the England series, and possibly including Pakistan's visit to Australia, India will be untouchably the world number one ranked side for the forseeable future, how realistic is it to call this the best ever India team?

Getting a bit ahead of ourselves , are we not ? Granted India are strong favorites at home - especially with England at sixes and sevens after the Bangladesh trip went a bit awry - but it remains to be seen how it goes in practice. Couple of crucial tosses go England's way ; Cook & Root both fire ; Hameed turns out to be just what was needed ? Obviously not saying it will happen but I've seen too many Test Series turn out very different from prior expectations to be guaranteeing an Indian walkover...
In fact I will be rather surprised if it does end up 5-0 ; but even if it does I think this Indian team doesn't get that kind of accolade until they perform outside their own backyard. They really haven't yet.

[meninblue]

It's often only when a side gets 2-0 or 3-0 up that the self-defeating factor comes into play, IMO. Even then, there is the dead rubber effect, where the winning team is less motivated, but the losing team is strongly motivated to give it their best to save some shred of dignity.

I think this is more what I was getting at.

I don't think many would claim that a 5-0 is absolutely the difference between the sides, just that at the present, the conditions are likely to lead to this outcome. And mainly because of Ashwin. An injury might be interesting.

I wonder if India will lose a long run of tosses, having won so many in a row.

Ashwin will be fit throughout the series.

I hope Cook, Joe and Ben misplace their passport in England.

[meninblue]

Lot of injured players for first few tests

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-eng ... 64385.html

[Red Devil]

Lot of injured players for first few tests

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-eng ... 64385.html

can't believe Pandya is in line for a test match ... looks like we will do our best to make sure Eng have a good chance

Those injuries could be costly - would be ok if at least Rahul was fit, so maybe Nair has to come in based on this squad

my side if they get the pitch right would be Vijay, Gambhir, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Nair, Ashwin, Saha, Jadeja, Mishra, Shami

[Durhamfootman]

Given that Brexit has already been blamed for GB's poor showing in Tokyo 2020, could we not also blame it for England's poor showing in India?

seems perfectly reasonable to me

[Gingerfinch]

Given that Brexit has already been blamed for GB's poor showing in Tokyo 2020, could we not also blame it for England's poor showing in India?

seems perfectly reasonable to me

Don't give Cook ideas. He mentioned inexperience for the loss to Bangladesh. That after a 19 year old took us apart!