Second Test: England v South Africa, Nottingham, July 14-18

[bigfluffylemon]

just watching CWoTV and they are having a similar discussion to what we were having above and without wanting to open up a debate on KP again, its almost as if we are seeing the mindset he used to get criticised for applying to our whole team atm

that we play the way we play, when it comes off it looks great and we win, when it doesn't come off, we lose, and its not going to change

i know its easier said than done but they have to learn better situational awareness, that doesn't mean Ben Stokes or Moeen Ali becoming Chris Tavare but just recognising when to dig in

But then everyone complains that we have a top 3 who are too defensive

It's not defensiveness that's the issue. Trott was defensive and had the strike rate of an ageing snail. The difference was, between 2009-2012 he averaged nearly 50 with a hundred every five tests. It's ok going slow if you actually score enough runs to set a platform for the rest of the team to attack from. When the top three was Strauss, Cook, Trott, England weren't very often 70/3 when KP came in.

[rich1uk]

just watching CWoTV and they are having a similar discussion to what we were having above and without wanting to open up a debate on KP again, its almost as if we are seeing the mindset he used to get criticised for applying to our whole team atm

that we play the way we play, when it comes off it looks great and we win, when it doesn't come off, we lose, and its not going to change

i know its easier said than done but they have to learn better situational awareness, that doesn't mean Ben Stokes or Moeen Ali becoming Chris Tavare but just recognising when to dig in

But then everyone complains that we have a top 3 who are too defensive

It's not defensiveness that's the issue. Trott was defensive and had the strike rate of an ageing snail. The difference was, between 2009-2012 he averaged nearly 50 with a hundred every five tests. It's ok going slow if you actually score enough runs to set a platform for the rest of the team to attack from. When the top three was Strauss, Cook, Trott, England weren't very often 70/3 when KP came in.

thats why i said its not a case of expecting someone to completely change their game, but at this level i would expect them to be able to play within a range of approaches depending on the match situation, and i just think we lack that a little

[rich1uk]

noticed a few comments about Anderson being expected to bowl twice yesterday, at the end of the SA first innings and the start of their second

he only bowled 20 deliveries yesterday morning and then 6 overs yesterday evening

[Making_Splinters]

I've never really gotten the argument about a top 3 being too defensive or aggressive. All players can play more aggressively or defensively these days as they all play in limited overs formats, what I don't want to see is how Bairstow started his innings yesterday, overly aggressive before being set. Is Jennings even a "defensive" player?

[rich1uk]

219 behind as Elgar moves on to his 50

[rich1uk]

after wasting reviews yesterday they dont review one that would have been out

[bigfluffylemon]

thats why i said its not a case of expecting someone to completely change their game, but at this level i would expect them to be able to play within a range of approaches depending on the match situation, and i just think we lack that a little

I'd agree, except to say it's often more than a little!

The early wickets we'd need to stand a chance are not materialising yet. Urg - and England fail to review a nick. For all Cook's flaws as captain, his judgment on DRS was better than most opposing captains. Root's has been horrible.

[bigfluffylemon]

On the subject of ageing greats and lack of strength in depth, I think there's a pretty strong chance that Anderson will call it a day after the Ashes this year. He should get to 500 wickets by the end of that series, and maybe even pass Walsh's 519, but he's getting on and injuries are catching up. I can't see him going on too much longer. Maybe next summer to have a home farewell?

[rich1uk]

yeah we are gonna need someone out of the group of the Overtons, Currans, Helm or Coad to make the step up within the next year or so

[rich1uk]

big test of Root today as captain

trying to make sure the heads dont go down when we are well behind in the game

[westoelad]

I've never really gotten the argument about a top 3 being too defensive or aggressive. All players can play more aggressively or defensively these days as they all play in limited overs formats, what I don't want to see is how Bairstow started his innings yesterday, overly aggressive before being set. Is Jennings even a "defensive" player?

You play as the situation demands and,in test cricket, the prime object of any opener to see off generally very skilled operators with a new ball. Jennings is a skillful and very intellligent cricketer who'll play as the situation demands as anyone who witnessed his undefeated century earlier in the season against an international class Notts attack under difficult conditions will testify.Hameed has had a nightmare season so far and it was perfectly sound logic for him to be "rested" from the test team and hopefully regain form and confidence away from public scrutiny with Lancs 2nds. Plenty of time for the 20 year old to have a 2nd coming.
South Africa are a top quality test team and at times you have to accept that you're 2nd best. Only way we can marginally strengthen the current team is replace Dawson with Stoneman batting 3 and Ballance 5.

[Aidan11]

No luck in the first hour.

[mikesiva]

Boycott: "I can't see why Dawson is playing ahead of Rashid."

[westoelad]

Boycott: "I can't see why Dawson is playing ahead of Rashid."

Boycott in tune with public opinion for once.

[Dr Cricket]

lol is dawson the worse england player ever to play 3 test matches.
Dawson some lucky dude getting paid big money to play cricket when he crap.

surprised it isn't mention by other but really the big reason England are not doing well since 2014 is the bowling, only Anderson and broad average under 35, the rest are in the wrong side of 40.
England not really got a bowling attack capable of taking 20 wickets and when that is added with the batting issues it is quite easy to see why they not performing like they should do.

Although if they find a stable top order england should be fine alongside a better spinner and 3/4th seam option.
England depth at the moment is quite low.
no really depth in any position barring Wicketkeeping.
no batsman coming through, no real bowlers coming through and no spinners.