Third Test: England v South Africa, The Oval, July 27-31

[Arthur Crabtree]

No wickets in the first 50 minutes.

This is the tail we can't bowl out.

Ta-da!

Wicket for Jimmy the Saint.

Big Vern at the crease, hopefully feeling a bit better.

[Arthur Crabtree]

And fifty for Bavuma. Well done to him.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Curious the reputation (or lack of) of Big Vern. Since WWI (different game before then) he has the 10th best average of any bowler with 100 wickets. And the best of any SA, just ahead of the Superhuman Steyn. I look at the players either side of the player under review in the stats to get some perspective on a player's value and Vern is flanked by McG and Donald. And Philander is just ahead of Hadlee.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

What lack of? I'd rate him as SA's best bowler, easily. Very, very dangerous.

I'm not saying no one rates him at a bowler, but I don't think he's viewed alongside those ATGs that he matches statistically.

[Arthur Crabtree]

And fifty for Bavuma. Well done to him.

Test average only 33. Looks a lot better than that.

[mikesiva]

Bavuma gets his half century!

A gutsy innings by the little man. He has topscored in three of his teams last five innings. The problem is south Africa lost when he did.

[budgetmeansbudget]

Finally gets his five wickets.

[yuppie]

Some handy late innings runs for SA. Frustrating for England not being able to wrap the tail up.

Still fully in command though.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Should be pressure off runs available for England today with a big lead and the batting a bit easier. New ball will still be a challenge though.

Pleased R-J got his five.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Lunch tomorrow?

[alfie]

Good review by Jennings .

Warne waffling about whether he actually knew he didn't hit it : surely he consulted his partner re the lbw ?

Jennings had a little fortune in this innings - and heaven knows he needs some. Up to 33 now though. Inching that lead along.

[alfie]

Curious the reputation (or lack of) of Big Vern. Since WWI (different game before then) he has the 10th best average of any bowler with 100 wickets. And the best of any SA, just ahead of the Superhuman Steyn. I look at the players either side of the player under review in the stats to get some perspective on a player's value and Vern is flanked by McG and Donald. And Philander is just ahead of Hadlee.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

What lack of? I'd rate him as SA's best bowler, easily. Very, very dangerous.

Was about to respond disparagingly to bhaves' comment, then I did a bit of googling and realised that he's right. The evidence for the ball actually swinging more when it's humid is very thin on the ground. It mostly seems to be human psychology/confirmation bias at work (and perhaps is harder to bat because the light is poorer. It certainly was yesterday).

What's really interesting is that this is such accepted wisdom in the cricket community that I never thought to question it until just now. Astonishing that there could be so little actual evidence for something held to be common knowledge. Thanks bhaves.

For those interested, see:
http://theconversation.com/why-we-think ... esnt-46587
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-18262145

Interesting articles . But I note that they do not prove the "conditions" factor to be a myth. Indeed after more than fifty years practical experience I am convinced that they can indeed play a significant part : though it never occurred to me that it had anything to do with the ball "changing shape". ...
I reckon it is more to do with air temperature especially near the surface of the ground ; wind - very often accompanying the sort of conditions we are considering : and indeed the visibility factor not aiding the batsmen.
The ball will often swing beautifully on a bright day too , so I'm not claiming weather conditions are all. But I will always fancy my chances on a damp overcast afternoon a little more than a dry warm one...and I'd reckon stats will show that the bowling team generally does better when the sun don't shine.
Scientists will have to do a bit more to convince me there is nothing in it.

[Dr Cricket]

Good post agree a lot with that although I really reckon a placebo effect and poor visiability makes batting harder, the scientiest that did the research worked with ecb and found anderson wrist position was better on cloudy days and one of the artIcles Anderson stated if scientist have no idea why the balls swings then the batsman have no chance either, plus it seemed like ecb don't believe the myth about the ball moving because of conditions but more because of skill or other factors.
Surprised people always looked at the weather to explain better performances and not the players themselves.

[Durhamfootman]

Pleased R-J got his five.

me too

[Dr Cricket]

Would bowl on a damp day anyway because shouldn't the ball seam more of the deck.
Think the issue is when people think the ball only swings when overcast when in reality it is the wrist position that determines if the ball swings or not.
Even Anderson can have days when his wrist position is bad and he isn't a handful which funny enough tends to be when it was overcast 2014 lords and just yesterday.
Yet in India 2012 he was swinging the ball on sunny days.
Surprising enough it is commentators that still mention oh it is a bowling day the ball should be swinging loads today.

[alfie]

Would bowl on a damp day anyway because shouldn't the ball seam more of the deck.
Think the issue is when people think the ball only swings when overcast when in reality it is the wrist position that determines if the ball swings or not.
Even Anderson can have days when his wrist position is bad and he isn't a handful which funny enough tends to be when it was overcast 2014 lords and just yesterday.
Yet in India 2012 he was swinging the ball on sunny days.
Surprising enough it is commentators that still mention oh it is a bowling day the ball should be swinging loads today.

You are certainly correct about wrist position being crucial - as in fact is your actual angle of the shoulders at ball release : an interesting thought is that sometimes a swing bowler , faced with "good" conditions , messes himself up by trying too hard and actually losing his own best shape...
And of course you are quite right that seaming off the pitch (just as important) is clearly more likely when it's a bit damp.

As I say ; a good swing bowler can move the ball in just about any conditions : but arguably not as much or for as long when the weather isn't to his liking.

It is an interesting subject for study. Perhaps they could set up some variation of the hawk eye gadget to measure swing effects "in the field" as it were , and make comparisons ?