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yuppie wrote:8 wickets for chase

England 246 all out

Chase 8-60!

surely nobody could have predicted that England would be shot out by a spinner? I know it hadn't occurred to me. England were probably just a bit unlucky.... on another day they would have comfortably hit their way out of trouble. Bayliss and Smith understand this, which is why I hope they remain in place for many years to come

6-31 at the end. All finished quite tidily. No messing about.

Some great strike rates in that rearguard.

In that way, England's effort surpassed SA's famous epic draw in Adelaide. England scored so much quicker.

Chase is a part time spinner, of course. or rather slow bowler, because seemingly he didn't get any ball to turn even slightly.

a couple of comments on the BBC live feed caught my eye.......

'How many times does Joe Root have to say "It doesn't make us a bad side" before England are a bad side?'

'I really can't get over the fact that Roston Chase now has better Test-best figures than Shane Warne.

Only England.'

Chase's last wicket brought up 50 for him in Tests. Second 5-fer, the previous against India in his second Test. 5-121 in Kingston, though India made 500-9d.

I am so very grateful to the ECB for making sure that I don't get the opportunity to watch England play

gawd bless them

Getting torn apart by a part time spinner. Not covered themselves in glory. At least Burns can walk away having battle a little bit, and at least Jennings wanted to bat out time and attempted to save the game, despite scoring nothing again. The rest really should be ashamed.

This batting line up is just not good enough. Stokes should move down to be a bowling allrounder, we need to pick one keeper, and we need to get rid of Jennings. Get some prope bats in, not people in the top order who are salvaging careers on being able to keep or bowl. We need to ditch Rashid, if his captain bowls himself over him, why is he there. And Curran bowled terribly, no swing happening on green tops, hes just a bit of a military medium bowler who cant afford to drop the ball anywhere a fraction full or wide.... and in this test he was all over the place. Is Curran really better than Broad?

Quite few players had good games by not playing.

England have just won well in SL (against spin!). So that should be taken into consideration. And beat India convincingly.

Currently annoyed that there is a single capless option that no one really wants to pick to come in and strengthen the batting, but the bowling cover is many and varied. Admittedly including Mark Wood. So there will be bowling changes to fix what is mostly a batting problem.

I know this is the ultimate kneejerk, but is James Hildreth really not good enough to tour?

Arthur Crabtree wrote: England have just won well in SL (against spin!). So that should be taken into consideration

Sri Lanka look a damn awful team.

Australia just thrashed Sri Lanka by an innings. Sure, it was at the Gabba, but remember Aus have been on a horrendous low ebb.

This reminds me of watching England in the 90s, without the excuse that they were facing a world class spinner. Or watching England in Australia in 2013. I know the list of England disasters is a long one, but this is surely right up there with the worst of them.

Well done to the West Indies.

alfie wrote:
Question for the stats nuts : has a team ever before been set over 600 to win in the fourth innings , with more than two full days to play ?

England were set over two days to score 474 v SA in 2017, at Trent Bridge. They got 133.

They were set 509 in over two days against Australia in 2015, at Lord's. And got 103.

Quite a lot of these.

The last time England were set over 600 to win, it was 648 at the Gabba in 2006. England made a relatively decent 370, but Australia declared before lunch on day four.

They were set 600 v WI in 1950 at Lord's but that was early on day four. Ramadhin and Valentine.

1937 at the MCG they were set 689 but that was day 5 in a timeless Test.

I'm guessing it was a timeless Test too in 1934, but ENgland were set 708 runs at the Oval, which again was on day four. That looks like the most they've been set. Bradman and Ponsford put on 451 for the second wicket.

Many other big chases in that era of timeless Tests...

So no, I can't see it has happened before.

That's just England though!

Arthur Crabtree wrote:

alfie wrote:
Question for the stats nuts : has a team ever before been set over 600 to win in the fourth innings , with more than two full days to play ?

England were set over two days to score 474 v SA in 2017, at Trent Bridge. They got 133.

They were set 509 in over two days against Australia in 2015, at Lord's. And got 103.

Quite a lot of these.

The last time England were set over 600 to win, it was 648 at the Gabba in 2006. England made a relatively decent 370, but Australia declared before lunch on day four.

They were set 600 v WI in 1950 at Lord's but that was early on day four. Ramadhin and Valentine.

1937 at the MCG they were set 689 but that was day 5 in a timeless Test.

I'm guessing it was a timeless Test too in 1934, but ENgland were set 708 runs at the Oval, which again was on day four. That looks like the most they've been set. Bradman and Ponsford put on 451 for the second wicket.

Many other big chases in that era of timeless Tests...

So no, I can't see it has happened before.

Great research , Arthur 1 . Thank you...I am too lazy - and insufficiently skilled at fiddling with Cricinfo stats queries - to do that myself. I figured it was unlikely purely because of the time factor : three days seems inadequate for building so large a lead without extraordinary events. I think we would all agree an 18 wicket day followed by a zero is rather rare...

Not sure what to say about that game - other than hearty congratulations to West Indies ...who ignored the dismissive predictions of both opponents and many of their own supporters and gave England a shock that will either cow them into folding up in the remaining matches or shake off their mental cobwebs and come back fighting in Antigua . Hopefully the latter.

Hopefully also the pitches are conducive to good cricket. Could make for some interesting games.

As to what England management can do (don't care what they say in public. It is all PR rubbish anyway. Means SFA) I hope they are flexible enough to accept that they got nearly everything wrong here - partly I suspect because of a (naive ?) belief that what happened in Sri Lanka showed that a varied attack would be better value than a class one. A case of fighting the previous war over again...

Cannot do much about the batting. Except this nonsense of Buttler having to bat at six or below has to stop : if he's worth a place as a batsman he bats five , latest. Put Stokes back to six (Some will say seven , after Foakes. I say let us see if Foakes can repeat his Sri Lankan heroics against better pace bowling first. Though he should certainly come in before Moeen) .
That is if Moeen stays in. Case for Leach instead , I think , next week. Mainly because Mo will be way down on confidence and that rarely goes well for him. He will be back.

And Broad must play if he's fit. He is one of only three unquestionably proven Test players in the squad. Mad to leave him out .

Hope Joe can get back to his toss-winning ways...

200 for Jason Holder at almost run a ball in tests. 8 wickets in an innings for Roston. With due respect to both of them, I never thought all this will happen in same test.

Totally dominated by WI to win by 381 runs. That's the way the teams should dominate on their day. Well done to WI.