Champions Trophy, Feb 19 - March 9

[andy]

SA to play the loser of NZ v India.

SA Vs NZ then...very good semi final on the cards there....both tournament nearlymen everytime round

[Durhamfootman]

I reckon Smith is done now. Produced nothing at 3 in the comp.... and why would he? He was just another left field punt from a team with nothing left but left field punts

Buttler will surely be retained as a player after this latest debacle is long over and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he ends up taking that no. 3 berth to give him the time in matches to rediscover the form of the old Jos Buttler

[Arthur Crabtree]

Smith was impressive last summer in Tests. Wouldn't mind if he got a chance lower down the order.

Buttler should always have been at 4. He's England's best ever ODI bat. Why is he at 6?

[andy]

Bit harsh on Smith to say he's done after a couple of bad games where the whole side is struggling...he's definitely one for the future especially with the gloves....bethell will surely bat 3 when he is fit again? Can see him doing that in all formats....I wonder if duckett could be an outside bet for the captaincy?

[mikesiva]

England 179 all out

Root 37

Mulder 3-25
Jansen 3-39
Maharaj 2-35

[sussexpob]

If Smith either had an incredible ability to bat long in OD cricket, or he had some monstrous SR, then why not give him more time. The truth is, he has neither - low 30s average meets old era ability to score quickly. Its not harsh to drop a player who should be nowhere near the side, he should be thankful he ever got a ODI cap with that record.

The fact he did well in tests means absolutely zero to me. His FC record is excellent, so yeah... its no surprise.

A good FC player does not make a good limited overs cricketer.

[sussexpob]

bethell will surely bat 3 when he is fit again?

Average of 26 in List A, SR is absolutely hideous at 84. 10 games with a SR of 80 in ODIs.

Should be nowhere near the side. Literally nowhere near.

[andy]

bethell will surely bat 3 when he is fit again?

Average of 26 in List A, SR is absolutely hideous at 84. 10 games with a SR of 80 in ODIs.

Should be nowhere near the side. Literally nowhere near.

His record in all formats domestically is pretty poor..however he came into the test side and scored runs against NZ and looked comfortable....be honest how many players come into international sides these days with stellar records? They still go on to have good careers...bethell looks like he can handle himself and is one to be stuck with....long term I believe Jamie smith is too...one bad comp dosent make a career...

Some players have had multiple and need discarding....but not all

[andy]

Another question going forward is, not Jos isn't captain does he get the gloves back?

[andy]

Archers got 2! He gets rickelton

[sussexpob]

His record in all formats domestically is pretty poor..however he came into the test side and scored runs against NZ and looked comfortable....

And judging ODI talent on test performances served England brilliantly between 1992 and 2015, didn't it? So brilliantly, we dominated ODI cricket the instant we stopped doing it, and we rubbish for decades while doing it.You are basically advocating a return to a policy that failed for 3 and a half decades, while adding in the "lets just ignore performances" part.

Sounds a brilliant plan, Andy.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Without a viable domestic 50 over competition, players will have to be judged via other formats.

[andy]

His record in all formats domestically is pretty poor..however he came into the test side and scored runs against NZ and looked comfortable....

And judging ODI talent on test performances served England brilliantly between 1992 and 2015, didn't it? So brilliantly, we dominated ODI cricket the instant we stopped doing it, and we rubbish for decades while doing it.You are basically advocating a return to a policy that failed for 3 and a half decades, while adding in the "lets just ignore performances" part.

Sounds a brilliant plan, Andy.

You have to judge on other formats because none of them play any 50 over cricket anymore....!! At no stage am I advocating going back to the dark days, but you also have to evolve and the way the calendar is now it makes it very difficult to get the balance we all want.....at the moment as it stands we have to find a way to get the best side available based on very limited 50 over cricket....I'm not sure why you seem to have an attitude about it considering there isn't many options available and I'm all doing is trying to figure out the best players from a very limited amount of information in 50 over cricket...

[Arthur Crabtree]

50 partnership off 10 overs. Game drifting inexorably to SA.

[sussexpob]

I am sorry, but this logic makes no sense to me whatsoever.

The England team management and selectors want to disregard the 50 over cup because the low quality renders it meaningless to how players could step up to international cricket, but let us not forget one important thing about this..... all the players they have picked FAILED in this competition during their careers, irrespective of the sample sizes involved. How, therefore, can you pick players to elevate to the ODI squad who cannot even score runs in this competition you decided was a forlorn, sub-standard B rate competition that is devoid of quality?

Makes sense, doesn't it? Well no.... the logic is utterly moronic.

At the end of the day, irrespective of the 50 overs value in preparing international cricketers, the one bloody thing that it does do perfectly is compare how batsman perform in the same standards.

Bethell averages 26 at 84 in 26 matches.
Sol Budinger averages 39 with a SR120 in over 35 matches.

Which is a better 50 over player??

Logic, common sense and pure evidence says Budinger is a better player.

Stupidity answers this question by saying Budinger is a terrible T20 and FC player, so must be worse....