3rd Test: India v England at Mohali on Nov 26-30

[andy]

You make some good points Arthur:

I've been really impressed with Rashid...Going into the series, it was widely known that England were only going in with 3 spinners, to make up for Rashid's inconsistenices, but he has settled well and has the trust of the captain, meaning England can arguably leave out a spinner, and just go in with Rash and Mo, and get an extra seamer in. Stokes has really stepped up with bat and ball, and is becoming the key all-rounder in the side who is rapidly becoming indispensable. However he needs to rein his neck in otherwise he will spend a long time off the park..im all for a sledge here and there, and keep things fired up, but he does have a tendency to go to far..he may well be riled up, but he is a grown man, and needs to act like one..and his celebration when he got Virat out, won't help his cause at all, just makes himself look like a twat...Im still not bairstow's biggest fan with bat or gloves...think that he is vulnerable to fast straight bowling, and prone to being bowled, as well as having a struggle with the short ball, and i dont think he has overcome that...HOWEVER:, you can't argue that he has been england's man of the year with the bat...and his keeping has come on leaps and bounds, and seems to be a guranteed starter in test cricket. Hameed im impressed with..shows good tempermant, attitude, looks solid in defence, and i hope he will be a mainstay in the test side...he's also very good in the short leg position.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Where England can be criticised, and I imagine most of all, Strauss, is that the winter plan hasn't worked. Using BD as a pre-tour failed because England didn't treat them as an end in themselves, and they underestimated them. And they lost a Test and looked second best. And because picking a squad for two tours has been a poor idea. England arrived in India with a damaged squad and alternatives were few going into a very hard series. Still, maybe England can still win the superseries...

Some planning hasn't worked at all. Cook doesn't believe in some players in his team and can't find a way to either hide that, or make the best of it. The management of Buttler has been muddled. Picking Duckett as an opener, then a number four, then dropping him, all in four Tests, has been hard to comprehend.

I could go on...

[andy]

Again i agree...Bangladesh should have been treated as a seperate series...they are a force in home conditions, and should have been treated like so... Duckett has been handled badly, and i hope it dosent affect him in the limited overs series...he has a future, and for me it is at 4, but he needs to find a way to play quality spin bowling....the difference between div2 and India at home is massive.

[rich1uk]

i agree rashid has improved but i just cant ignore the difference today in how the indian lower order looked so comfortable against all our bowlers, then as soon as we came out to bat on the same pitch we struggled hugely against ashwin and jadeja

took us 54 overs today to get the last 4 indian wickets and then we lost our first 4 wickets in just 38 overs and had quite a few close escapes as well

[andy]

Yeah it is worrying...particuatly as let's be honest...Jadeja isn't a turner of the ball...he's a defensive left arm dart bowler..and we really shouldn't be struggling against him..the only time he gets turn is out of footmarks, he dosen't spin the ball apart from that..and it's pretty embarassing that we struggle so bad against him

[Arthur Crabtree]

Jadeja has taken a wicket every 107 balls in the series. But he has supported Ashwin by stopping the scoring.

[Arthur Crabtree]

I meant to mention, the Lions tour would have been better scheduled during the BD tour rather than half way through the India tour. I expect there are reasons, but it hasn't been helpful.

[Dr Cricket]

Yeah it is worrying...particuatly as let's be honest...Jadeja isn't a turner of the ball...he's a defensive left arm dart bowler..and we really shouldn't be struggling against him..the only time he gets turn is out of footmarks, he dosen't spin the ball apart from that..and it's pretty embarassing that we struggle so bad against him

pretty harsh judgement that considering he got the most turn in the innings and probably the hardest bowler to face since one he very accurate, turn the ball 3 ways without any clue whatsoever, if the pitch got uneven bounce the ball behaves 6 different ways from the same spot and then you add the fact he starting to flight the ball now to beat batsman in the air.

[Dr Cricket]

I meant to mention, the Lions tour would have been better scheduled during the BD tour rather than half way through the India tour. I expect there are reasons, but it hasn't been helpful.

Well the reasons are no one really want to play lions since they get nothing out of it.
Actually surprised Sri lanka actually want to host them again in March or April.
but yes very crazy to start the lions properly in March/April if they do actually play sri lanka nothing confirmed yet although England are making plans for it so it is probably happening then the uncertainty of the fixture in September.

in an ideal world they would be playing in Sri lanka/India during the bangladesh series.
they could have easily had a lions series in India since BCCI has hosted A games before the Domestic season against NZ couple of yrs ago.
Sri lanka were quite busy since they had a long A series against WI not sure when that was signed but must have been last minute considering WI don't often play A games, England could have easily played in that slot.
Nothing new though since in the last few years lions schedule been quite empty or organised last minute every winter, the last proper schedule was SA 2 season ago.
last winter Pak/Sri lanka First class games were added last minute and the list A games were only organised because Strauss prioritised White ball cricket.
this winter schedule was organised last week of September and even then UAE/Afghanistan were not announced and sri lanka was 50-50 to actually happen.
Compare that to Sri lanka, WI, India, Australia, SA A fixtures and games.

[Dr Cricket]

Another thing with all the ECB money and resources it really shouldn't be difficult to organise games and fixtures 12-18 months before it starts.
if anything it is important to actually organise the lions games properly and not last minute considering if they wanted a lions tour earlier or during the india series they would be planning possible opponents and finding dates to do it or if they going the india, Australia way of having fixture 8-12 months before the tour so the younger players/fringe players get an opportunity to stake their claims.
SA do both, England played during the same time and india/Aus before the tour.
the way England been organising winter lions games lately is quite shambolic really since they doing nothing, either playing games way to late or hardly doing much.
how is Bayliss expected to pick an spinner or opener when no one played a game yet in UAE and he obviously not going to see how they playing in the nets or inter squad games.

Is flower just going to pick the squad for Bayliss for what he saw in the nets during the UAE/Loughbourough spell.

is it any surprise that the last time lions had a proper overseas tour, they actually won the full tour next time.
SA lions tour 2 seasons ago, next yr England win the series.

[The Professor]

England going down without even a whimper. An ill timed ill executed defensive display.

[sussexpob]

good article from Dobell.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-eng ... 69506.html

The incredible thing about this article is that the English's most prominent Cricinfo journalist has obviously finally seen Ashwin play, and after 3 tests of this series has come to the conclusions that I presented before the series begun. Before the series, the English media and commentators give it the "spin track bullies" nonsense, the tales of right angle turn on pitches that fell apart.... makes me wonder if literally any of these people ever watched an indian test since England's last tour....

Now England are getting a bit of a going over on pitches that have turned, but not to the fear inducing factors that the press would have you believe, the trotting out of Ashwin being an accurate bowler is coming.

And not really sure I get your point, Andy. Jadeja is incredibly accurate and gives nothing away..... thats about 85% all you need to be a world class bowler.

[Dr Cricket]

TBH not sure many rate Jadeja bowling, especially overseas fans.
maybe because jadeja makes bowling look so simple and easy.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-eng ... 69471.html
good article on Jadeja he generally get stick because he shouldn't be a good batsman or a good bowler although he harshly called an bad bowler that shouldn't get wickets by fans.
Not really sure how anyone could say facing him is easy might look easy while watching it but pretty tough facing him when he bowling quick, no idea what the ball doing and any slight mistake will probably be your wicket.

I will admit Jadeja got flaws but quite handy player in asia/WI.

[bigfluffylemon]

Have to agree with much of the sentiment here. I think some of the criticism of Bayliss is a bit harsh considering that England were never really expected to do well here. Despite the scoreline looking an almost certain 2-0 going into the 4th test, England have probably still performed better than expected. Both this test and the last they have been competitive at times, but India have won key sessions through their skill and experience in the conditions, while England can't quite exploit them.

I've said all along that I'm dubious about the third spinner being there for the sake of it. Bow that Rashid and Moeen seem to be getting better in the conditions, while both Ansari and Batty have done precisely nothing in five tests between them with bat or ball, it's time to replace the third spinner with a seamer. England have two world class seamers in Anderson and Broad and some solid backup in Woakes, Ball and Finn. Why play a mediocre spinner when you can play a good fast bowler? Ok, these guys are no Marshall/Holding, but West Indies won around the world with no spinner at all.

I'd actually give Ball a crack if Broad isn't fit. Finn's lost some pace, and his extra height and bounce isn't as useful on the slower pitches. I agree with the previous poster who said that it's such a shame Wood's absent - his left arm line and more skiddy style would be a much better fit to the attack on these pitches.

But bowling or not, England cannot win test matches in India if they cannot score over 400 in the first innings, regardless of whether they win the toss or not. I'm so sick of seeing 3 or 4 down for less than 80. Second innings, maybe it's forgivable when the pitch misbehaves a bit. First day, when the pitch wasn't doing much, it was due to carelessness. It's beyond me quite why these guys who are supposed to be the best that we have can't reign in their attacking instincts and realise that when the Indian bowlers are bowling well you have to dig in, try and rotate the strike and wait for the bad ball (which admittedly don't come often), rather than premeditate attacking shots after a couple of maidens. The bowlers get tired eventually. It's exactly what the Indian batsmen do to them, time and again. England gave very little away with the ball on day 2, the run rate was low for much of the day, and they kept India tied down, but it really didn't matter as the batsmen hung around and eventually took advantage of a tired England attack on day 3.

[Dr Cricket]

TBH they only need to look at ashwin at Rajkot and 2012 series that Ashwin does lose patience and will start giving bad balls away although admittedly it will be far longer to reach that stage but it is possible especially on the docile wicket so far in this series.
England can't say Ashwin and Jadeja spinning it around corners.
At the moment Ashwin and Jadeja having it too easy.