Pakistan v England 3rd Test, Sharjah, Nov 1-5

[hopeforthebest]

I'm unsure that Bayliss holds Hales in as high a regard as so many on CMS do, if he did surely with the failures of Moeen as opener Hales would open and Moeen would be moved down to strengthen the middle order rather than bring in Taylor. I suggest the chance of Hales going to SA as test player will now depend on his performances in the one day games.

[Arthur Crabtree]

That's probably true. But it would be unusual, and inconsistent to drop a player from the squad without them getting a chance, if they are not just covering for a returning injured player. I do get the impression though that England select players for tours that they really don't have a strong inclination to play in the side. Hales might fit in there. Rashid until this tour.

[hopeforthebest]

That's probably true. But it would be unusual, and inconsistent to drop a player from the squad without them getting a chance, if they are not just covering for a returning injured player. I do get the impression though that England select players for tours that they really don't have a strong inclination to play in the side. Hales might fit in there. Rashid until this tour.

They are dropping Buttler and bringing in Taylor to strengthen the middle order so there's no difference except it's Moeen who strengthens the middle order.

[Arthur Crabtree]

I thought the pattern might be that Hales would establish himself in the 50 offer side and then get a Test shot. Him being called up to the five day side without having established himself in ODIs has taken away the imperative of him to step up into the long format. Still, he was the leading opener in CC, and he is on tour, so he's in the frame. But perhaps, rather than step up under the impetus of limited overs runs, maybe his Test ambitions will fizzle out before they start due to struggles in ODIs.

Among the pace options Footitt might be a long shot for SA.

[Making_Splinters]

Ali opening was always going to be more in hope than an actual expectation he would do well. Yet again England have made a selection that has left more issues than it ever solved, just like opening with Trott in the Windies did.

I would actually keep Ali at the top of the order in South Africa, and bring in Hales down the order if he is going to play. It simply does not make sense to me to throw in a debutant against Steyn et al.

[hopeforthebest]

I wanted Footitt in the squad for a long time as seems to me weve needed a let arm quick ever since Sidebottom. Footitt can bowl pretty fast and such bowlers are doing well for most of the successful test nations at present. They should have taken him to WC in Oz.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Ali opening was always going to be more in hope than an actual expectation he would do well. Yet again England have made a selection that has left more issues than it ever solved, just like opening with Trott in the Windies did.

True, the water just gets muddier. A settled side gets more elusive. There wasn't much support for Moeen opening, and few have been proved wrong (or right). even if he made runs in the last game, they won't seem to matter much in the next series.

If Hales wants to be a top order bat, I don't see why he shouldn't bat there in SA. If he's the best option, then presumably there should be some confidence he can do better there than anyone else.

[shankycricket]

I'm unsure that Bayliss holds Hales in as high a regard as so many on CMS do, if he did surely with the failures of Moeen as opener Hales would open and Moeen would be moved down to strengthen the middle order rather than bring in Taylor. I suggest the chance of Hales going to SA as test player will now depend on his performances in the one day games.

Taylor is a far better batsman than Moeen though and strengthens the middle order far more than Moeen would.

Hales or Moeen at the top is a much of a muchness. Hales, at present, doesn't look international quality to me. Of late, he has been struggling even in T20Is. I'd go back to Compton or invest in Lees or Duckett.

[Making_Splinters]

I'm unsure that Bayliss holds Hales in as high a regard as so many on CMS do, if he did surely with the failures of Moeen as opener Hales would open and Moeen would be moved down to strengthen the middle order rather than bring in Taylor. I suggest the chance of Hales going to SA as test player will now depend on his performances in the one day games.

Taylor is a far better batsman than Moeen though and strengthens the middle order far more than Moeen would.

Hales or Moeen at the top is a much of a muchness. Hales, at present, doesn't look international quality to me. Of late, he has been struggling even in T20Is. I'd go back to Compton or invest in Lees or Duckett.

Your constant writting off of Hales is getting a little tiresome, Shanks. Duckett only started opening for Northants in the second half of the season with fairly mixed results and Lees had a very average season last year and a hardly outstanding one the year before. Compare both of these to Hales who has averaged close to 50 for the last two years and your argument some what falls down.

I don't know how Hales doesn't look international quality to you, when he's never even played a test. Pray tell what about Lees and Duckett makes you think they would be better bets than Hales?

[Dr Cricket]

my house mate is a big yorkshire fan he basically said Lees is made a yorkshire captain in the ODI stuff since they think he won't play for england in the future.

Anyway sounds like Lees name is being mentioned because he is a yorkie and was a good prospect 2-3 years ago not sure he improved or done enough to suggest he ready or good enough to play for england.

England should really go with compton or Hales at the top. I would favor Compton not Hales.

Hales isn't a consistent run scorer.

[Making_Splinters]

my house mate is a big yorkshire fan he basically said Lees is made a yorkshire captain in the ODI stuff since they think he won't play for england in the future.

Anyway sounds like Lees name is being mentioned because he is a yorkie and was a good prospect 2-3 years ago not sure he improved or done enough to suggest he ready or good enough to play for england.

England should really go with compton or Hales at the top. I would favor Compton not Hales.

Hales isn't a consistent run scorer.

I'm getting a bit tired of pointing this out, but Hales has averaged close to, or above, 50 for the last two seasons, that is as consistant as anyone in England and better than Compton.

[Gingerfinch]

Trescothick and Vaughan were never that consistent in county cricket before playing test cricket, but Ramps and Hick were.

[KipperJohn]

England have made the same mistake they made in the West Indies - they've taken two specialist openers Cook and Hales and played only one which, quite frankly, is an absurd way to accommodate a second spinner. All this talk about the balance of the side is a lot of nonsense if players in key positions aren't making runs, taking wickets or holding an end up.

Irrespective of what happens in this test I'd like to see something like the following against SA

Cook
Hales
Ballance
Root
Bell
Taylor
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Broad
Anderson

Bairstow
Rashid
Footitt
Finn

I seem to recall England were at their best with six specialist batsmen (with a stubborn engine room) wk/batsman. 3 seamers and a spinner.

[m@tt]

I seem to recall England were at their best with six specialist batsmen (with a stubborn engine room) wk/batsman. 3 seamers and a spinner.

The 2005 team had 5 specialist batsmen, 1 all-rounder, 1 wk/batsman, 3 seamers and a spinner. That team beat South Africa away and one of the great Australian teams.

The 6/1/3/1 format under Strauss+Flower worked because of Swann. Moeen is doing a decent job but he is no Swann, and nor should he be expected to be. Swann could both attack and constrain, allowing Strauss to keep the fast bowlers fresh during the first innings.

And had England a good all-rounder at their disposal during that time, I'm sure they would have picked him to give them a fifth bowling option. But they didn't.

[Making_Splinters]

To be honest, I very much view Ali as doing a holding role untill a top quality England spinner comes along. I had really hoped Rashid would lay down a marker in the UAE, and while I do feel he has played better than Ali in all departments, he hasn't done quite enough to force his way into the side. That said, between the two I would back Rashid to win England more games than Ali looking forward.

There are a couple of decent spinners around, Crane for Hampshire laid down a strong marker in his debut season, Kerrigan has been overshadowed by emergence of Lilley - who looks very promising - but had a half decent season, Riley had a poor season but has shown promise in the past, Ansari was bitterly unlucky to miss this tour and I would back him to replace Ali in the next season or two. So it's not as if there is nothing coming through the ranks.