1st Test England v Pakistan, Lord's 14-18 July

[Dr Cricket]

Chances are pakistan bowling attack would do the same and on paper right now pakistan got a far better bowling attack.

[hopeforthebest]

Moeen's fc average is only slightly better than Woakes - yet the former is a top order bat in Div 2 and Woakes is a lower order bat in Div 1. Woakes has made several winning scores for Warwicks and only weeks ago made the highest score for a number 8 in ODI history.

As I recall, when he first came on to the England scene his lower order batting was a significant factor in his selection.

However, as usual it's our batting that's the main problem. I don't think Stokes return particularly strengthens that area unless or until he brings some consistency.

Stokes is the great one by universal opinion but I agree to feel that way about him you have to ignore some of the worst batting by a top order player, seen in an England shirt. He is unquestionably far and away our best fielder and is greatly missed from the slip cordon. His bowling alone would not get him selected for England. He's an asset only if other batsmen are good enough to score the runs he won't make I would be surprised if he would've done any better than Balance did in this game.

[sussexpob]

Moeen's fc average is only slightly better than Woakes - yet the former is a top order bat in Div 2 and Woakes is a lower order bat in Div 1. Woakes has made several winning scores for Warwicks and only weeks ago made the highest score for a number 8 in ODI history.

As I recall, when he first came on to the England scene his lower order batting was a significant factor in his selection.

However, as usual it's our batting that's the main problem. I don't think Stokes return particularly strengthens that area unless or until he brings some consistency.

Stokes is the great one by universal opinion but I agree to feel that way about him you have to ignore some of the worst batting by a top order player, seen in an England shirt. He is unquestionably far and away our best fielder and is greatly missed from the slip cordon. His bowling alone would not get him selected for England. He's an asset only if other batsmen are good enough to score the runs he won't make I would be surprised if he would've done any better than Balance did in this game.

Stokes has a terrible record against spin

[backfootpunch]

Chances are pakistan bowling attack would do the same and on paper right now pakistan got a far better bowling attack.

Rahat and Amir were both awful with the new ball in both innings

Bowled all over the place

Anderson, broad and Woakes is streets better than rahat, wahab and Amir

We need to take a leaf out of the book of India and provide a pitch that favours our bowlers heavily

[Dr Cricket]

TBH Ball, Finn, Ali and Stokes are not exactly great either.
If they go with a real green deck it would become a lottery not sure England would be 9 or 10 times out of 10 to win in those and in normal wickets pakistan got the edge because they have a better spinner and got bowlers that are far more lethal with the old ball.

Edit didn't pakistan take 3 cheap wicket in the 2nd innings wonder what that say about the english batsman if the pakistan opening bowling was poor.

TBH was general pakistan bowling not that great with the new ball but deadly with the old ball, Wahab certainly got more accurate and threatening when he got the ball to reverse.
Amir was nervous so he would probably get better, Rahat was ok but did take wicket now and then.
Yasir World class.

[The Professor]

Not a minute of this match I didn't enjoy - even in the , relatively, dry Day Three.

[backfootpunch]

TBH Ball, Finn, Ali and Stokes are not exactly great either.
If they go with a real green deck it would become a lottery not sure England would be 9 or 10 times out of 10 to win in those and in normal wickets pakistan got the edge because they have a better spinner and got bowlers that are far more lethal with the old ball.

Edit didn't pakistan take 3 cheap wicket in the 2nd innings wonder what that say about the english batsman if the pakistan opening bowling was poor.

TBH was general pakistan bowling not that great with the new ball but deadly with the old ball, Wahab certainly got more accurate and threatening when he got the ball to reverse.
Amir was nervous so he would probably get better, Rahat was ok but did take wicket now and then.
Yasir World class.

Those four aren't going to be our bowling attack though are they

Ball and fInn are unlikely to play again in the series

On seamer friendly wickets anderson and broad are two of the three best bowlers in the world so we should back them to do the job

And we know have a much improved woakes to back them up

We need to play to our strength and not produce a dry flat pitch like this one

That just plays to pakistans strengths i.e Yasir and reverse swing

[Dr Cricket]

Still a tough ask to win 2 games out of three, especially when pakistan are capable of winning one more game to draw the series at least.

Should still be remembered india won in the greenest pitch at lords in 2014 and by all reports Old trafford will suit pakistan massively because the concert *modded* up the outfield and the pitch is actually dry.
reverse swing and spin will happen there, hard to see the groundsman fixing it dramatically to make it a wet green deck in 4 days.
oval again might not suit England swing bowlers or game plan, really only edgbaston offers them that route.

Anyway what ever happens should be a cracking series right now pakistan hold the edges.

[KipperJohn]

England's batting today was pretty dire. Even Bairstow and Woakes continued to try and drive balls coming across them, having seen Hales and Vince perish.

If you didn't know otherwise you'd have thought a 3 sessions run chase was turning into an attempt at a draw.

3 whole sessions tomorrow - this time not lost to the weather.

[hopeforthebest]

Nothing happened in this test that really surprised me except Woakes was even better than one might expect and our batters succumbed more easily to Yasir Shah than I thought possible.

[Dr Cricket]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2016 ... ers-shine/
there is clearly something wrong with berry, 2 months ago he mentioned england at all times should not produce green decks this summer so they can be better prepared for the winter tours and more prepared for the Australia tour in 18 months time.
Now saying prepare green decks lol.
Berry at least be consistent now.
He even said last time around it is wrong to have green decks in England apart from the Ashes and the crowd should see 4 or 5 day epic test matches and not one sided contest that no one watches.

[backfootpunch]

Still a tough ask to win 2 games out of three, especially when pakistan are capable of winning one more game to draw the series at least.

Should still be remembered india won in the greenest pitch at lords in 2014 and by all reports Old trafford will suit pakistan massively because the concert *modded* up the outfield and the pitch is actually dry.
reverse swing and spin will happen there, hard to see the groundsman fixing it dramatically to make it a wet green deck in 4 days.
oval again might not suit England swing bowlers or game plan, really only edgbaston offers them that route.

Anyway what ever happens should be a cracking series right now pakistan hold the edges.

What was the result in that series against india?

All I'm saying is dont write us off yet

[Dr Cricket]

TBH I won't considering probably would have a punt on England on the series market if the odds are good, but I do really think england hopes lies with Anderson and broad England are really one injury or poor game away from not having an attack that would trouble Pakistan enough to make them certainties in my eyes to win the test or series.

[hopeforthebest]

Woakes should paste a copy of England's series stats on his wall while he's top of both batting and bowling averages. It's unlikely to last long.

[Dr Cricket]

wonder if Botham still thinks england the number 1 test team in the world.
Still the biggest mystery how he was england greatest cricketer.