First Test: England v South Africa, Lord's, July 6-10.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Is Foakes a good keeper. My impression is that the worse bat they are, the better keeper they are imagined to be.

[Durhamfootman]

I guess that if Ballance scores 56 off 140 balls in the first test, everyone in the dressing room will be very happy with that

[ianp1970]

just to add and i know this will probably sound silly but having 2 all-rounders in Stokes and Ali has kinda made our selection harder rather than easier as the selectors cant seem to make their minds up where they should bat and we end up picking a bowler we dont need rather than have someone who is seen as a proper batsman bat as low as #8 as the perception is they are wasted there

so we end up batting Stokes and Ali in the top 6 and then waste a spot on a bowler rather than risk upsetting them or another batsman by asking them to bat at #8

Maybe we should pick a proper keeper

Bat foakes at 8

Similar argument to Russell/Stewart all those years ago, although back then we didn't have any all rounders to balance the side.

2 keepers were a luxury we couldn't afford to fit into the eleven, rather than than just being superfluous to requirements these days.

[sussexpob]

Is Foakes a good keeper. My impression is that the worse bat they are, the better keeper they are imagined to be.

Chris Read destroyed that myth. He could bat in county cricket, but people still had this memory of him being brilliant.... all I remember was constant mistakes. In fact, I do believe arguing all those years back at that Sydney test, after he dropped chances, with people saying his performance had proved how great he was.

I think some people just dont watch that much of the game, and keepers especially dont have their chance stats registered for easy display, so myths are a plenty. Foster was a crap keeper every time I seen him too, but he would fit your bill.

Its about time Brownie got a mention, hes got a real knack for scoring key runs for Sussex.

[westoelad]

Hussain and Athers have been paying tribute to Reid today. Athers reckons Reid is 2nd only to Foster amongst current w/ks. Can't remember if Browne has ever even been in a Lions team. Questionable control of his temperament apparently.

[westoelad]

Interesting insight by the same two into England selection meetings. Both were of the opinion that it was Root's insistence that got Ballance selected and that since it was Root's 1st match as captain the selectors wouldn't want to overrule him. No doubt Root is convinced of Ballance's credentials from being a Yorkshire teammate. However he'll know little of his competitors from other counties having played so little county cricket himself. Is he being fair to himself and other competing players by advocating a teammate?

[bigfluffylemon]

it just strikes me as a remarkably defensive option to play Dawson because we want someone at #8 that can handle the bat reasonably well, when there is no way he should be in the team based on his bowling alone

If we wanted someone for that particular role, Fat Sam has all the form in the book this season!

we already have Moeen Ali in the squad to play that role

if we count Stokes and Ali as legitimate bowling options we are going to have 6 bowlers plus root as a backup

if we wanted the extra batting just play a batsman as we certainly dont need all that bowling

Could not agree with you more rich.

Cricinfo seems to think TRJ is a more likely start than Dawson, but I'd definitely agree with you that either way we're a bowler too many, and a specialist batsman too few.

[rich1uk]

i was almost throwing things at my TV today when they were talking about TRJ being picked because they are worried about the other 4 seamers all having had injury problems this year

basically admitting that TRJ isn't playing because he makes the best XI but as an insurance policy and i just think thats all kinds of wrong

[westoelad]

i was almost throwing things at my TV today when they were talking about TRJ being picked because they are worried about the other 4 seamers all having had injury problems this year

basically admitting that TRJ isn't playing because he makes the best XI but as an insurance policy and i just think thats all kinds of wrong

Can't see what's wrong with that. Quite often as a bowler you get your chance because of injury or loss of form by 1st choice.It's then up to TRJ to perform to a level that demands he keep his place. It's an opportunity -take it. I can't see TRJ worrying too much about why he's been picked.

[rich1uk]

he isn't being given the chance because of an injury tho

he is being given a chance because of the possibility of an injury

edit : just to clarify i am not talking about his inclusion in the squad but the probability of him making the final XI

no test team needs 6 genuine bowling options

[westoelad]

he isn't being given the chance because of an injury tho

he is being given a chance because of the possibility of an injury

Yes, so he now knows he's next in line if/ when someone gets injured. And with 4tests in 4 weeks he'll know that's pretty certain to happen.
It's the Dawson selection that puzzles me.

[rich1uk]

he isn't being given the chance because of an injury tho

he is being given a chance because of the possibility of an injury

Yes, so he now knows he's next in line if/ when someone gets injured. And with 4tests in 4 weeks he'll know that's pretty certain to happen.

but that still doesn't really justify him playing in the XI next week, if he gets the nod over Dawson

[westoelad]

he isn't being given the chance because of an injury tho

he is being given a chance because of the possibility of an injury

Yes, so he now knows he's next in line if/ when someone gets injured. And with 4tests in 4 weeks he'll know that's pretty certain to happen.

but that still doesn't really justify him playing in the XI next week, if he gets the nod over Dawson

Now that would be crazy.

[rich1uk]

he isn't being given the chance because of an injury tho

he is being given a chance because of the possibility of an injury

Yes, so he now knows he's next in line if/ when someone gets injured. And with 4tests in 4 weeks he'll know that's pretty certain to happen.

but that still doesn't really justify him playing in the XI next week, if he gets the nod over Dawson

Now that would be crazy.

given i think Dawson playing is crazy then that must be really, really, crazy

i keep coming back to this principle that we are making bad decisions on team balance to avoid having to have someone like Moeen bat at #8

[Arthur Crabtree]

I get the impression that the reassurrence teams seek by stretching their batting ever further down the order is difficult to give up when the options just aren't available. Once England would have a keeper at seven who averaged 30, and then ideally a number eight who chipped in. Then they got Matt Prior, a batter at seven. And now they have Bairstow. Then they got Moeen at eight and Woakes at nine... All of a sudden they feel vulnerable if they don't have those players there. Really, England can afford to pick their best spinner.