WI tour of South Africa

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Re: WI tour of South Africa

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:47 pm

He hardly played after that date. All you've got there is one disappointing series. He's a two in one cricketer and with little quality elsewhere it seems obvious that he's been left out for non cricketing reasons.
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Re: WI tour of South Africa

Postby ChrisQ » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:59 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:He hardly played after that date. All you've got there is one disappointing series. He's a two in one cricketer and with little quality elsewhere it seems obvious that he's been left out for non cricketing reasons.

Excuse me?

He hardly played after March 1, 2014???

Maybe we aren't talking about the same Dwayne J. Bravo.

Because the Dwayne J. Bravo I'm talking about played EIGHT matches (in Three different series) after March 1, 2014:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... view=match

Between January 1, 2014 and March 1,2014, he played FIVE matches.

So the majority of his matches for the year were actually played after that date

As for there being little quality elsewhere, maybe you should go over the stats for Nkrumah Bonner and Jason Mohammed at the very least before pronouncing Bravo to basically be the only option.

He is an allrounder. An allrounder is supposed to bat AND bowl. For the majority of the matches he played in for 2014 his batting was mediocre at best and atrocious at worst. It's rough, but allrounders have to be good in both departments lest they eventually get replaced by a batsman, a bowler or another allrounder.
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Re: WI tour of South Africa

Postby ChrisQ » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:05 pm

shankycricket wrote:Thanks Chris. Those numbers would look even worse if you take out the minnows. I think even Johnson Charles has a far better record than Gayle over the same period. I knew his stats were poor but was too lazy to do the research to quote the exact number. The last 2 and a half years have been diabolical but I think.his struggles extend well beyond that, to the time he was sacked as captain in mid 2010. He was terrible in the previous World Cup, epitomised by his pathetic shot in the quarterfinal against Pakistan.that started the procession after which.he was rightly dropped on performance grounds, he then went to play in the IPL.and remained in international exile for a year. When he came back, he looked like he had a point to prove and had a.good home series against NZ in all formats followed by a tournament winning performance in the 2012 World T20. Since then, he seems to have lost the motivation again and has reverted to being the same old waste of space. So yeah, he has been poor for nearly 5 years now with a brief 3 month purple patch in 2012.

Clearly deserves a spot in the team.

Its quite amusing to see England fans who criticise Cook (quite rightly so) exaggerate the worth of a guy playing for another country, who.has been doing FAR worse.


You're welcome

And yes it is quite amusing to see the exaggerations in play for players who would have long ago been dropped from the team in the English cricket system
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Re: WI tour of South Africa

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:23 pm

Even if he gets one of the disciplines going at a time, then he's contributing to a side with few strengths. And cutting off his numbers at that point just feels unnecessary as he had some good scores before then. For me, eight games isn't a lot to go on.
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Re: WI tour of South Africa

Postby shankycricket » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:05 pm

I can still see a case for Bravo because of his all round abilities.

But I'm still awaiting a stats-based argument from mike regarding the basis on which Gayle deserves to be in the ODI side. For all the talk of lack of alternatives, Gayle has done worse than pretty much every one of them over the last 2 and a half years. Johnson Charles YES JOHNSON CHARLES averages around 10 more than Gayle during the same period.
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Re: WI tour of South Africa

Postby ChrisQ » Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:15 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Even if he gets one of the disciplines going at a time, then he's contributing to a side with few strengths. And cutting off his numbers at that point just feels unnecessary as he had some good scores before then. For me, eight games isn't a lot to go on.


Sure. I can agree with that to an extent. Though in all honesty I think he needs to be dropped so that he can work on his batting. If after a decade we could easily replay Lara's words and it still applies to his batting then Bravo REALLY needs to sort it out. After all, if you have an allrounder who is now basically a bowler, but you still play him as an allrounder then your batting is actually now weaker than it should be because you are in essence playing an extra bowler. In that case you can drop one of the main bowlers from the XI and play Bravo as an out-and-out bowler and bring in another batsman (like Bonner or Mohammed) OR you can drop the allrounder who isn't really an allrounder in favour of a batsman who will bring more runs that your crop of bowlers can defend.

And with Simmons in the side (he does bowl as well and hasn't bowled too badly in the past), it could easily go the way of just dropping Bravo, playing Simmons and bringing in an extra bat while playing the normal compliment of bowlers. Heck, if you dropped Bravo and Gayle and brought in someone like Deonarine, that brings in an extra spinner (Gayle supposedly bowls spin, but he's probably tossed more bowling balls than he has bowled cricket balls in recent times).

OR given that Rampaul can actually bat somewhat (at least no worse than Bravo when he isn't flashing in the pan), you could drop Bravo and Gayle and bring in Rampaul and Bonner/Mohammed and the team might actually perform better.

After Ramdin and Samuels were out of the team for extended periods (one was dropped, the other banned for talking to bookies), they both came back in hungry and did much better with the bat.

And by the way, eight games is plenty to go on. That's three more than most West Indian domestic players have in an entire year of List A cricket in the West Indies....if they can be expected to perform consistently over 5 games or risk not being selected next year for the next List A tournament.....then what's sauce for the goose should surely be sauce for the Bravo
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Re: WI tour of South Africa

Postby Aidan11 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:09 pm

Rain. :evil:
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Re: WI tour of South Africa

Postby Gingerfinch » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:34 pm

Another fifty for Amla. He's averaging over 56 in ODI Cricket.
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Re: WI tour of South Africa

Postby rich1uk » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:38 pm

Dr Robert wrote:Another fifty for Amla. He's averaging over 56 in ODI Cricket.


hes only averaging 334 in this series , drop him !
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Re: WI tour of South Africa

Postby Gingerfinch » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:40 pm

rich1uk wrote:
Dr Robert wrote:Another fifty for Amla. He's averaging over 56 in ODI Cricket.


hes only averaging 334 in this series , drop him !


Low strike rate?
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Re: WI tour of South Africa

Postby rich1uk » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:42 pm

Dr Robert wrote:
rich1uk wrote:
Dr Robert wrote:Another fifty for Amla. He's averaging over 56 in ODI Cricket.


hes only averaging 334 in this series , drop him !


Low strike rate?


barely over a run a ball , practically pedestrian
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Re: WI tour of South Africa

Postby Gingerfinch » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:44 pm

rich1uk wrote:
Dr Robert wrote:
rich1uk wrote:
Dr Robert wrote:Another fifty for Amla. He's averaging over 56 in ODI Cricket.


hes only averaging 334 in this series , drop him !


Low strike rate?


barely over a run a ball , practically pedestrian


In this day and age, it should be near 150, ala De-Villiers.
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Re: WI tour of South Africa

Postby Aidan11 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:01 pm

Rossouw gets a 50. :clap
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Re: WI tour of South Africa

Postby Aidan11 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:26 pm

WIs can console themselves in the fact that if a wicket falls now there are not enough overs for ABD to get destructive again.
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Re: WI tour of South Africa

Postby rich1uk » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:30 pm

Aidan11 wrote:WIs can console themselves in the fact that if a wicket falls now there are not enough overs for ABD to get destructive again.


still 60 deliveries , time for him to get a 100
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