England A in South Africa 2015.

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Re: England A in South Africa 2015.

Postby Making_Splinters » Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:42 pm

rich1uk wrote:without being seen to continue the cook witch-hunt one of the reasons almost everyone was happy to see him continue in tests last year despite his struggles was the lack of viable alternatives as opener

with lyth, lees and robson all making runs here and would obviously need to sustain this, one warm-up game means next to nothing, if they do continue piling on the runs then maybe his spot starts to come under pressure from a batting perspective as well


I think Cook would have to score next to no runs all year before his place is under question. Winter tours of the UAE and South Africa are not really the place to be blooding new batsmen.

Robson is the one under pressure, not Cook.
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Re: England A in South Africa 2015.

Postby rich1uk » Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:58 pm

Making_Splinters wrote:
rich1uk wrote:without being seen to continue the cook witch-hunt one of the reasons almost everyone was happy to see him continue in tests last year despite his struggles was the lack of viable alternatives as opener

with lyth, lees and robson all making runs here and would obviously need to sustain this, one warm-up game means next to nothing, if they do continue piling on the runs then maybe his spot starts to come under pressure from a batting perspective as well


I think Cook would have to score next to no runs all year before his place is under question. Winter tours of the UAE and South Africa are not really the place to be blooding new batsmen.

Robson is the one under pressure, not Cook.


not disagreeing with that really

just saying the dynamic from last year would change if these three continue scoring runs
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Re: England A in South Africa 2015.

Postby Dr Cricket » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:36 pm

Making_Splinters wrote:
rich1uk wrote:without being seen to continue the cook witch-hunt one of the reasons almost everyone was happy to see him continue in tests last year despite his struggles was the lack of viable alternatives as opener

with lyth, lees and robson all making runs here and would obviously need to sustain this, one warm-up game means next to nothing, if they do continue piling on the runs then maybe his spot starts to come under pressure from a batting perspective as well


I think Cook would have to score next to no runs all year before his place is under question. Winter tours of the UAE and South Africa are not really the place to be blooding new batsmen.

Robson is the one under pressure, not Cook.


I would say the Ashes is the main one.
Fails to score and england loses that would put him under severe pressure.
Ashes is sadly the only thing majority of people in this country care about and lets not forget the extra press the ashes gets here.
Cook and ECB would have to show lots of Steel to survive Cook not scoring and losing the ashes next year.

Wouldn't surprise me though if Cook gets dropped/Rested for the UAE series if he fails next summer but get picked on the SA tour.
Of course no one wants to get blooded in away tours but sometimes teams are forced in picking new players on tough away tours.

Picking the team for the final england test will be interesting since essentially england could pick another 11 players in the last South Africa test compared to the first test against NZ if bad form, injuries, young players failing and retirement happen during the 12 months.

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Re: England A in South Africa 2015.

Postby Making_Splinters » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:38 pm

rich1uk wrote:
Making_Splinters wrote:
rich1uk wrote:without being seen to continue the cook witch-hunt one of the reasons almost everyone was happy to see him continue in tests last year despite his struggles was the lack of viable alternatives as opener

with lyth, lees and robson all making runs here and would obviously need to sustain this, one warm-up game means next to nothing, if they do continue piling on the runs then maybe his spot starts to come under pressure from a batting perspective as well


I think Cook would have to score next to no runs all year before his place is under question. Winter tours of the UAE and South Africa are not really the place to be blooding new batsmen.

Robson is the one under pressure, not Cook.


not disagreeing with that really

just saying the dynamic from last year would change if these three continue scoring runs


I think Robson's failure to convert his promising domestic and Lions form into Test cricket would serve to annul any suggestions that a more in form opener should replace Cook.

Cook would have to make his position completely untennable combined with England losing most of the next five series for any change to come through.
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Re: England A in South Africa 2015.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:55 pm

Cook scored about the same amount of runs as Robson last summer, who was considered ready for the push. He's doing about as badly as the partners that have come and gone in the past couple of years. He is judged by different standards, which won't apply indefinitely.

But I can't see him not scoring runs in WI. A nightmare scenario would be him being injured for that, his replacement doing well, and Steely returning for NZ/Aus. As I say, he'll score runs in WI, but if he didn't, he could easily be gone by the end of the year. In ODIs, even though Moores and Downton wanted him to stay, the selectors were able to get rid of him.

How about if England get to the WC semis? How will that reflect on Steely?
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Re: England A in South Africa 2015.

Postby Durhamfootman » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:55 pm

Making_Splinters wrote:
I think Cook would have to score next to no runs all year before his place is under question. Winter tours of the UAE and South Africa are not really the place to be blooding new batsmen.

Robson is the one under pressure, not Cook.

agree with that. Cook shouldn't be under any pressure for his openers slot either....he's a quality, proven, and established international batsman, who could potentially break virtually every England batting record before he retires
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Re: England A in South Africa 2015.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:01 pm

He's not that player anymore. He hasn't scored a ton since NZ 2013, and has looked bad trying. How long does he have to fail before him once being a great player no longer matters? The five series this year? If he starts scoring runs, fair enough, but his reputation won't keep him in the side indefinitely.
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Re: England A in South Africa 2015.

Postby Dr Cricket » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:02 pm

Durhamfootman wrote:
Making_Splinters wrote:
I think Cook would have to score next to no runs all year before his place is under question. Winter tours of the UAE and South Africa are not really the place to be blooding new batsmen.

Robson is the one under pressure, not Cook.

agree with that. Cook shouldn't be under any pressure for his openers slot either....he's a quality, proven, and established international batsman, who could potentially break virtually every England batting record before he retires


not sure that should protect cook all the time, there will be a time where Cook would have to start producing runs and not get picked on past performances.

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Re: England A in South Africa 2015.

Postby Durhamfootman » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:02 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:
How about if England get to the WC semis? How will that reflect on Steely?

that would depend on how the next 2 test series go. That's one of the advantages of having an ODI skip who isn't remotely near the test side.
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Re: England A in South Africa 2015.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:07 pm

Few think of Cook as a good captain. He led England to a series of ODI defeats. If England did better under another captain at the WC, circumstantially, it would exert pressure. When seeking answers for potential defeats, this kind of thing will fall into the laps of the experts. Even though Morgan isn't near the Test side, and won't be an option.
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Re: England A in South Africa 2015.

Postby Durhamfootman » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:18 pm

Durhamfootman wrote:
Arthur Crabtree wrote:
How about if England get to the WC semis? How will that reflect on Steely?

that would depend on how the next 2 test series go. That's one of the advantages of having an ODI skip who isn't remotely near the test side.


And of course he has to start scoring runs again. It goes without saying.

I think he will

He'll still be a terrible captain, but as in India, if he scores enough runs, his woeful captaincy, his inability to read conditions, and his complete lack of understanding of the game will be overlooked by everybody................ except us
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Re: England A in South Africa 2015.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:18 pm

Making_Splinters wrote:Winter tours of the UAE and South Africa are not really the place to be blooding new batsmen.



Isn't that what the have continually done? Compton on a tour to India. Root for the Ashes. Carberry for the Ashes. You can't say they benefit by being with a settled partner, because, they haven't.
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Re: England A in South Africa 2015.

Postby m@tt » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:30 pm

Making_Splinters wrote:
Arthur Crabtree wrote:Will Lyth and Taylor be close to Test spots this year?


Lyth very much so, he's next in if Robson fails or quite possibly inked in to open already. Taylor has a tougher deal as Root, Ali and Ballance have earnt their spots and will be given a decent run.

I would guess that England will take 14 of the 16 players they used last summer, the exceptions being Stokes and Prior.

Rashid has been name-checked as the second spin option, and given the doubts over Robson it is likely they will take Lyth as well. They will need a backup keeper, so it could be that Bairstos goes. So that's a squad of 17.

Would love to see Taylor go, but I think they are more likely to take a spare opener and if there is a middle order injury then they'll just rejig or play the spare WK.
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Re: England A in South Africa 2015.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:35 pm

Haven't heard from you since your 25th birthday Matt. Hope you are ok.
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Re: England A in South Africa 2015.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:36 pm

Maybe they'll rest one of Anderson or Broad?
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