The Ashes 5th Test. The Oval. August 20-24.

[yorker_129-7]

This a list of leading run scorers in world cricket, most play in the sub continent and Australia or in countries where the weather and conditions of are good for batting. Cook's record is quite exceptional.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/conten ... 23646.html

Just realised from that list Cook is, with the retirement of Sangakkara, the highest scorer among "active" players, if we assume there's no way back for Chanderpaul

[westoelad]

Yep plus he always contradicts him self.
I would never take the guy seriously unless he talks about leg spin and Spinners.
many people in Twitter have said he only good when he actually talks about Spinners, everything else is so bull S*it

From the Sky box I would only take Nasser/Atherton seriously.
Holding doesn't really offer opinions except for Fast bowlers and he usually spot on doesn't really mentions things he doesn't know about which I like.
Botham doesn't know nothing.
plus the overseas comms are usually good except for Warne.

Plus from the ODI set up, Knights is not exactly an ODI expert the guy is clueless about the format.

That's a sound synopsis of the team although Bumble,when he's got his sensible hat on,is a shrewd and knowledgeable guy. Holding does limit himself to what he knows but nowadays much of the debate centres around fast bowling. Much preferred Ponting to Warne.

[Arthur Crabtree]

In Bell's defense, we don't look to have too many options. Taylor and Hales stand out, with only one of those being a middle order player. I would bat Bell at five, and get Taylor in at three, with Ali opening, for the UAE.

I used to feel like that under Flower when players would come in, sometimes do well at first, and then fade away (even Root did that under Flower). But I tend to think now that it was something to do with the team environment. Now I'm inclined think there are players out there that can do well, but the difficulty is identifying them. A few England legends have come in with only ordinary tailwind from county cricket, and could easily have never made it, just someone saw potential in them. Like Gough, for example, who Illingworth picked, or Simon Jones under Fletcher. Too many players get in due to the glamour of being with England under nineteens. Too few 'stalwarts' who come through other channels get a chance.

[sussexpob]

I think Bell plays well for Warks because it's a functional unit whereas since 2012 England has been in a state of flux and and dysfunctional at times. I've been critical of Bell as much as anyone when he's deserved it and he is exasperating very much as Gower was exasperating at times. But this litany of listing his failures and ignoring his successes gets irritating.

I think the patience people have in the team has eroded because of that dysfunction, and unfortunately no one seems to have been effected greater than Ian Bell, imo. As stated above, Bell is in many ways a barometer of English batting in his career, when he does well, the team does well.... when he fails, the batting line up as a whole stalls.

The problem for Bell is, when the team does well, other players also do well too (or at least that is my perception). Lots of his successes are devalued because of that, maybe unfairly, but then again while he has been scapegoated for his failures, others have paid a greater price.

Eoin Morgan bought it in UAE
Patel bought it after the loss to SL in the first test away in 11/12
Strauss, KP and Taylor bought it for South Africa
KP and Carberry bought it again in OZ
Bairstow bought it before that tour in England when the batting failed
Prior copped it after the India Loss at Lords
Compton already had the hangmans noose over his head in his last test vs New Zealand...... they were quick to jump over Robson as a failure
Trott didn't ride out the Windies tour
Lyth has bought it this tour. Ballance bought it after one loss in the last series

Every England batting failure has been met with a blood letting, and Bell has been part of those failures consistently. Only Cook, as Captain, and Bell are the people to escape the shame of having their career torn apart. Root was even dropped at the start of 2014.

I can accept that having a team change around you all the time is difficult. I can also accept that Bell has been managed poorly, he should be batting at 5 or 6 where he has always played better, and not in positions where he struggles. No doubt the epic dressing room furore has had an impact on him, and others. Its simply not a healthy environment..... yet if others bought it, why not Bell? What is he doing that others aren't? Robson averaged better then Bell is this season with his 2014 performances. Why protect a guy that hasn't performed for 4 years over a guy who could be a brilliant prospect?

The answer to those questions answer themselves. England have messed a lot up, and in doing so, have messed a lot of people up. I accept that. I mitigate Bell slightly for that.....

The bottom line though.... I don't think Bell wants it anymore. That's the attitude I get. Its understandable as a reflection from the never ending crap he and others put up with, but that's it. I don't see a desire to bat all day in him, to prove people wrong.

[Making_Splinters]

Since KP left the side, Ian Bell seems to have become the next player that divides fans. Despite his fairly poor Ashes series he actually scored three fairly important 50s. Not a bad return from 10 innings.

[rich1uk]

Since KP left the side, Ian Bell seems to have become the next player that divides fans. Despite his fairly poor Ashes series he actually scored three fairly important 50s. Not a bad return from 10 innings.

no offence M-S but there in that one comment is almost everything that is wrong with English selection

he averages 26 for the series but hey nevermind he made 3 scores of 50-60

[Dr Cricket]

Since KP left the side, Ian Bell seems to have become the next player that divides fans. Despite his fairly poor Ashes series he actually scored three fairly important 50s. Not a bad return from 10 innings.

no offence M-S but there in that one comment is almost everything that is wrong with English selection

he averages 26 for the series but hey nevermind he made 3 scores of 50-60

Or English cricket.
With the Ashes won England are more likely to brush things off and paper over cracks.

[sussexpob]

Since KP left the side, Ian Bell seems to have become the next player that divides fans. Despite his fairly poor Ashes series he actually scored three fairly important 50s. Not a bad return from 10 innings.

Probably key to note that all 3 innings came at times Australia were well behind, and their bowlers bowled way too aggressively in the search of wickets to bring them into the game. In fact, virtually all commentators at the time remarked that Australia's bowlers were all over the place looking for the magic ball... they had just been bowled out for 130, and at Cardiff England had a significant lead by the time Bell got to the crease.

[sussexpob]

Since KP left the side, Ian Bell seems to have become the next player that divides fans. Despite his fairly poor Ashes series he actually scored three fairly important 50s. Not a bad return from 10 innings.

no offence M-S but there in that one comment is almost everything that is wrong with English selection

he averages 26 for the series but hey nevermind he made 3 scores of 50-60

Indeed. You have to say if someone scores 250 runs in 10 innings, for every good score, there is probably more than one failure there. He scored about 100 runs spread over the next 7 innings, which is not that far from not bothering to turn up.

[Making_Splinters]

Since KP left the side, Ian Bell seems to have become the next player that divides fans. Despite his fairly poor Ashes series he actually scored three fairly important 50s. Not a bad return from 10 innings.

no offence M-S but there in that one comment is almost everything that is wrong with English selection

he averages 26 for the series but hey nevermind he made 3 scores of 50-60

Actually, your response shows what's wrong with those who constantly bang on about averages and don't take into account the series. If you want to criticise Bell then talking about how he threw away his wicket in the first innings at Edgbaston would be a good point to make, and indeed one that would say a heck of a lot more about whats gone wrong with Bell than repeatedly saying 26. If you look ath Oval in comparision Bell got a very good ball in both innings compared to say Stokes who in the second innings had a wild drive at Lyon when he was barely set or Root who got out hooking with a man there for the exact shot he played.

Bell's problem over the last few years - particularly since his return to the ODI side - has been the transitions in his innings. When he gets through the opening spells he looks to overly attack rather than waiting for the right balls to hit. I can't quite place my finger on exactly when this started happening, but he seems to have lost his ability to sit through quiet phases when there aren't balls to go after and tries to manufacturer a boundry. It's a very KP trait to have.

[rich1uk]

Since KP left the side, Ian Bell seems to have become the next player that divides fans. Despite his fairly poor Ashes series he actually scored three fairly important 50s. Not a bad return from 10 innings.

no offence M-S but there in that one comment is almost everything that is wrong with English selection

he averages 26 for the series but hey nevermind he made 3 scores of 50-60

Actually, your response shows what's wrong with those who constantly bang on about averages and don't take into account the series. If you want to criticise Bell then talking about how he threw away his wicket in the first innings at Edgbaston would be a good point to make, and indeed one that would say a heck of a lot more about whats gone wrong with Bell than repeatedly saying 26. If you look ath Oval in comparision Bell got a very good ball in both innings compared to say Stokes who in the second innings had a wild drive at Lyon when he was barely set or Root who got out hooking with a man there for the exact shot he played.

Bell's problem over the last few years - particularly since his return to the ODI side - has been the transitions in his innings. When he gets through the opening spells he looks to overly attack rather than waiting for the right balls to hit. I can't quite place my finger on exactly when this started happening, but he seems to have lost his ability to sit through quiet phases when there aren't balls to go after and tries to manufacturer a boundry. It's a very KP trait to have.

at the end of the day its a game of numbers and contributions

you don't put pictures on a scorecard

btw I think that post was actually the first time I have mentioned his series average in this discussion altho I have mentioned the far more worrying stat of an average of 29 for the last 24 months a few times

over that sort of sample size numbers don't lie

[sussexpob]

Since KP left the side, Ian Bell seems to have become the next player that divides fans. Despite his fairly poor Ashes series he actually scored three fairly important 50s. Not a bad return from 10 innings.

no offence M-S but there in that one comment is almost everything that is wrong with English selection

he averages 26 for the series but hey nevermind he made 3 scores of 50-60

Actually, your response shows what's wrong with those who constantly bang on about averages and don't take into account the series. If you want to criticise Bell then talking about how he threw away his wicket in the first innings at Edgbaston would be a good point to make, and indeed one that would say a heck of a lot more about whats gone wrong with Bell than repeatedly saying 26.

What ever analysis you use, he isn't making enough scores, and he hasn't improved over a long period of time.

Is the conclusion any different?

[Making_Splinters]

Since KP left the side, Ian Bell seems to have become the next player that divides fans. Despite his fairly poor Ashes series he actually scored three fairly important 50s. Not a bad return from 10 innings.

no offence M-S but there in that one comment is almost everything that is wrong with English selection

he averages 26 for the series but hey nevermind he made 3 scores of 50-60

Actually, your response shows what's wrong with those who constantly bang on about averages and don't take into account the series. If you want to criticise Bell then talking about how he threw away his wicket in the first innings at Edgbaston would be a good point to make, and indeed one that would say a heck of a lot more about whats gone wrong with Bell than repeatedly saying 26. If you look ath Oval in comparision Bell got a very good ball in both innings compared to say Stokes who in the second innings had a wild drive at Lyon when he was barely set or Root who got out hooking with a man there for the exact shot he played.

Bell's problem over the last few years - particularly since his return to the ODI side - has been the transitions in his innings. When he gets through the opening spells he looks to overly attack rather than waiting for the right balls to hit. I can't quite place my finger on exactly when this started happening, but he seems to have lost his ability to sit through quiet phases when there aren't balls to go after and tries to manufacturer a boundry. It's a very KP trait to have.

at the end of the day its a game of numbers and contributions

you don't put pictures on a scorecard

btw I think that post was actually the first time I have mentioned his series average in this discussion altho I have mentioned the far more worrying stat of an average of 29 for the last 24 months a few times

over that sort of sample size numbers don't lie

Right now Ian Bell should not be a discussion point, it doesn't matter who you through into the side at three at present. Until England have a vaguely functional opening partnership whoever is at three isn't going to do well. England need to get their first two batsman regularly getting 50 on the board and at least denting the new ball, I'd keep Bell simply because he actually has enough experiance not to phased by coming in time and again against bowlers with a new ball in their hands and their tails up.

I was slightly suprised there was no comment about Cook not taking the first delivery in the Ashes series, as the Captain and senior batsman surely that is something you should be doing.

[sussexpob]

I was slightly suprised there was no comment about Cook not taking the first delivery in the Ashes series, as the Captain and senior batsman surely that is something you should be doing.

I did actually notice that, but then thought Strauss was always number 1, so has Cook ever been lead striker?

[Arthur Crabtree]

I presumed Lyth had the choice.