Aus v Eng ODI series

[meninblue]

Haven't checked stats , however i feel Alex (avg 21, SR 88) must be the least averaging opener amongst top 8 cricket teams. Also what happened to Jos, was he dropped or injured

Seems that without Joe Root, the team is without a backbone. Nobody to score a hundred.

Taylor scored a ton last game, Morgan has made two scores of 80 plus this series and a ton against New Zealand, Buttler also made a ton against New Zealand. So the claim there is no one to score hundreds is quite a long way wide of the mark.

Hales has had a very poor series but made two 50s against New Zealand at an average of 33 and a strike rate of over 120. It's always the case that people have a very short memory when it comes to players. After the New Zealand series lots of people were saying Roy should be dropped, but after the next series where he's averaged 40 with two fifties at a strike rate of over 100 he's suddenly off the chopping block.

Buttler was technically rested, but his form has been very poor since the start of the Ashes.

Was aware of 2 * 50+ scores by Morgan, but did not knew about Taylor ton.

As far as Alex is concerned imo he is lucky to be in team with such records. He will get in only on basis of expectations or the talent factor that every cricketer is linked with rather than the actual performance delivered so far.

Jos has a acceptable ratio of average to SR imo which surprises me why he was dropped. There are lesser performing batter than him who could have been dropped instead of him. Jos has a better AVG:SR ratio compared to Alex. But they still drop the batsmen who has delivered relatively better perfromance

[Gingerfinch]

I think Buttler was rested, and rightly so.

As for Hales. Has obvious talent, but needs to score runs, and at a rapid rate.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Hales is a big scorer in fc cricket (he makes big scores) and a proven success in international T20. He's only been in the ODI side as opener this summer. England would be crazy to leave him out after a single poor series.

[meninblue]

I think Buttler was rested, and rightly so.

As for Hales. Has obvious talent, but needs to score runs, and at a rapid rate.

If England are on ODI series winning spree then it is understood to rest relatively better batters.

An opener cannot average 21. It looks very bad. A good opening start is very important.

[Making_Splinters]

Haven't checked stats , however i feel Alex (avg 21, SR 88) must be the least averaging opener amongst top 8 cricket teams. Also what happened to Jos, was he dropped or injured

Seems that without Joe Root, the team is without a backbone. Nobody to score a hundred.

Taylor scored a ton last game, Morgan has made two scores of 80 plus this series and a ton against New Zealand, Buttler also made a ton against New Zealand. So the claim there is no one to score hundreds is quite a long way wide of the mark.

Hales has had a very poor series but made two 50s against New Zealand at an average of 33 and a strike rate of over 120. It's always the case that people have a very short memory when it comes to players. After the New Zealand series lots of people were saying Roy should be dropped, but after the next series where he's averaged 40 with two fifties at a strike rate of over 100 he's suddenly off the chopping block.

Buttler was technically rested, but his form has been very poor since the start of the Ashes.

Was aware of 2 * 50+ scores by Morgan, but did not knew about Taylor ton.

As far as Alex is concerned imo he is lucky to be in team with such records. He will get in only on basis of expectations or the talent factor that every cricketer is linked with rather than the actual performance delivered so far.

Jos has a acceptable ratio of average to SR imo which surprises me why he was dropped. There are lesser performing batter than him who could have been dropped instead of him. Jos has a better AVG:SR ratio compared to Alex. But they still drop the batsmen who has delivered relatively better perfromance

Morgan has made seven 50 plus score this summer, incuding a ton and three scores above 80. Combined with Taylor and Jos your claim that there is no one to make tons is simply not true. Root has made some big scores this summer but arguably Morgan has been the most important batsman for England.

Jos has had a prolonged period of poor form over the five tests against Australia and the ODIs he played against Australia before being rested.

Not sure what your point about Hales is, he had a decent series against New Zealand and a poor one against Australia. He's been in very good form domestically this summer and it would be ridiculous to drop him after one poor series.

England's openers have only played two series as and opening partnership and they have each done well in one of them. There is far too much willingness to chop and change this side.

[rich1uk]

Was aware of 2 * 50+ scores by Morgan, but did not knew about Taylor ton.

As far as Alex is concerned imo he is lucky to be in team with such records. He will get in only on basis of expectations or the talent factor that every cricketer is linked with rather than the actual performance delivered so far.

Jos has a acceptable ratio of average to SR imo which surprises me why he was dropped. There are lesser performing batter than him who could have been dropped instead of him. Jos has a better AVG:SR ratio compared to Alex. But they still drop the batsmen who has delivered relatively better perfromance

will given technically buttler wasn't dropped he was rested after having been playing as wicket-keeper in all three formats for well over a year with hardly a break and I would expect him to return to the team next series

in addition England were quite obviously experimenting a bit with players in this series rather than playing the strongest team in every game, thus root being rested for the whole series and finn being left out for the final 2 games

[Making_Splinters]

To be honest, I think a lot of people and the press need to take a step back and take stock of how this summer has gone.

We've just beaten one World Cup finalist and lost 3 - 2 against the World Cup winners. Would anyone have seriously suggested that was possible at the start of the year when we'd just been bungled out of the group stages of the World Cup in a truly embarrassing fashion. Have we all forgotten the shocking run of results we had under Cook?

The progress this team has made in such a short amount of time is incredible. A huge amount of credit needs to go the players and coaches who've turned around a side that was a laughing stock with even Associates publically making fun of us into one that looks to have a serious claim of being a tough side to beat, with a squad of players that have international experiance.

Not every player will come off every series, especially when they're finding their way in international cricket. After the New Zealand series there was a lot of noise being made about Roy needing to be dropped, fast forward another series and he's started to look the part. Now it's Hales is turn to be called out, yet wind back a single series and he had a very decent performance.

There needs to be an understanding that this is a very new squad and players need to be stuck with.

[rich1uk]

To be honest, I think a lot of people and the press need to take a step back and take stock of how this summer has gone.

We've just beaten one World Cup finalist and lost 3 - 2 against the World Cup winners. Would anyone have seriously suggested that was possible at the start of the year when we'd just been bungled out of the group stages of the World Cup in a truly embarrassing fashion. Have we all forgotten the shocking run of results we had under Cook?

The progress this team has made in such a short amount of time is incredible. A huge amount of credit needs to go the players and coaches who've turned around a side that was a laughing stock with even Associates publically making fun of us into one that looks to have a serious claim of being a tough side to beat, with a squad of players that have international experiance.

Not every player will come off every series, especially when they're finding their way in international cricket. After the New Zealand series there was a lot of noise being made about Roy needing to be dropped, fast forward another series and he's started to look the part. Now it's Hales is turn to be called out, yet wind back a single series and he had a very decent performance.

There needs to be an understanding that this is a very new squad and players need to be stuck with.

personally I think the difference between hales and roy is that roy looks to have taken heed of the criticism he was getting after the NZ series and made some changes technically that have made him look more solid already. hales still seems to have a bit of the "rabbit in headlights" look when he is opening in ODIs.

I said above I am all for giving people a run in the side but just how long do you give a guy averaging 20 after 20 games , do we wait til hes played 50+ games before deciding he isn't going to make the jump in class from domestic to international cricket ? its that mentality that led to bopara playing 120 games in ODIs.

[Making_Splinters]

To be honest, I think a lot of people and the press need to take a step back and take stock of how this summer has gone.

We've just beaten one World Cup finalist and lost 3 - 2 against the World Cup winners. Would anyone have seriously suggested that was possible at the start of the year when we'd just been bungled out of the group stages of the World Cup in a truly embarrassing fashion. Have we all forgotten the shocking run of results we had under Cook?

The progress this team has made in such a short amount of time is incredible. A huge amount of credit needs to go the players and coaches who've turned around a side that was a laughing stock with even Associates publically making fun of us into one that looks to have a serious claim of being a tough side to beat, with a squad of players that have international experiance.

Not every player will come off every series, especially when they're finding their way in international cricket. After the New Zealand series there was a lot of noise being made about Roy needing to be dropped, fast forward another series and he's started to look the part. Now it's Hales is turn to be called out, yet wind back a single series and he had a very decent performance.

There needs to be an understanding that this is a very new squad and players need to be stuck with.

personally I think the difference between hales and roy is that roy looks to have taken heed of the criticism he was getting after the NZ series and made some changes technically that have made him look more solid already. hales still seems to have a bit of the "rabbit in headlights" look when he is opening in ODIs.

I said above I am all for giving people a run in the side but just how long do you give a guy averaging 20 after 20 games , do we wait til hes played 50+ games before deciding he isn't going to make the jump in class from domestic to international cricket ? its that mentality that led to bopara playing 120 games in ODIs.

Hales has played two series as a first choice opener. He did well enough to justify a place in one and poorly in another. He's shown he can succeed at international level in T20 cricket and against New Zealand showed he can provide the fire power with a reasonable degree of success the side has been in desperate need of for years. Will England fans ever stop demanding that a player needs to have a 100% success rate from the second they come into the side? Just take a step back and take a look at the fact you're suggesting that a player should be dropped after a single poor series.

If we go on that logic, Roy would have never played against Australia and we'd have dumped a player whose just averaged 40 against the World Cup winners at a strike rate of over 100. Suddenly looks a trifle silly doesn't it? Not to mention that there were serious calls for Morgan to be dropped after the World Cup.

I've been as exasperated as anybody by the number of injudicious shots England batsmen have played to get themselves out this summer. The match awareness and savy required to become a truly international class batsman takes time to develop.

Look where the side was at the start of the year, look where they are now. Then justify that England should be making changes.

[mikesiva]

I hope Morgan is okay. Starc looked really worried....

[rich1uk]

how would roy have never been selected based on what I said in my previous post ?

if Roy had played 20 games and been poor then maybe yes he should have been dropped

you keep referring to one poor series but its not one poor series , its 20 games in ODis with a high score of 67, he needs to be having good series to make up for having a poor series and hes not doing that , if the best defence you can give for him is "he played ok against NZ with a couple of 50s and an average of 33" then that's not saying much

and if you notice I didn't say he should be dropped , I said he has to show soon he can handle playing at this level

[Making_Splinters]

how would roy have never been dropped based on what I said in my previous post ?

if Roy had played 20 games and been poor then maybe yes he should have been dropped

you keep referring to one poor series but its not one poor series , its 20 games as an opener with a high score of 67

and if you notice I didn't say he should be dropped , I said he has to show soon he can handle playing at this level

Another recurring theme is quoting how many games a player has played without ever giving any context to that. When he first came into the side he was expected to compensate for Cook, anyone who's followed him at domestic level knows that he's generally been a player who takes a bit of time to get going. He was then promptly dropped despite not doing any worse than Cook. Furthermore it is one poor series, he'd justified his place in the first series of the summer, but now is suddenly back on the block.

He's shown that he can handle international bowling in T20, so there is little doubt over that. Like most successful opening batsmen he needs to develop a partnership with the other opener so they know how to handle the start of an innings. That comes with time.

England have made huge steps this summer, yet still that isn't good enough. Give the team a chance to settle in and then look at how to improve. Failed opening partnerships have hamstrung the side for the last few years, both Hales and Roy have contributed this summer and I've little doubt that they will continue to develop if given the chance.

I do find it slightly amusing that there are questions over whether Hales can hack it at this level given he's a front runner to open the batting in tests.

[rich1uk]

I do find it slightly amusing that there are questions over whether Hales can hack it at this level given he's a front runner to open the batting in tests.

I find it slightly amusing that he is considered a frontrunner to be opening in tests in the first place

but hey lets all follow your philosophy of continuing to give under-achieving players an unlimited run in the team , next thing we know we will be a couple of months away from the next world cup with a guy in the team who isn't good enough and no-one has been given a chance to show what they can do as a replacement because that strategy has worked so well for us in the past hasn't it

[Making_Splinters]

I do find it slightly amusing that there are questions over whether Hales can hack it at this level given he's a front runner to open the batting in tests.

I find it slightly amusing that he is considered a frontrunner to be opening in tests in the first place

but hey lets all follow your philosophy of continuing to give under-achieving players an unlimited run in the team , next thing we know we will be a couple of months away from the next world cup with a guy in the team who isn't good enough and no-one has been given a chance to show what they can do as a replacement because that strategy has worked so well for us in the past hasn't it

An unlimited run? No. More than two back to back series for a player who has clearly shown potential to do well? Yes.

It seems to be a running theme amongst England fans that they have a dependency to have a player to chastise. Over the summer it's been Bell and Stokes with occasional raids on Buttler, now it's Hales.

I have to wonder whether fans even know what they want from an ODI opener anymore. We're not going to find a player who averages 40 every series at a strike of 200. Maybe it's time to have some slightly more realistic expectations. Of course as these things are looked at the responces from some develop an increasing degree of hyperbole.

England already have opening options in the side with Ali and Root not to mention that Willey opens domestically to a degree of success. Outside the squad we have Vince who will likely come in at some point as England look to build a group of players not just a single 11.

As pointed out a fair few times now, post New Zealand most wanted Roy out, now it is Hales. Maybe just give it a rest and let the lads play 20 or so ODIs in a row and see what happens. Morgan and Buttler made a fairly salient point during the New Zealand series along the lines of, We're going out to play cricket the way we want to play it. It won't always come off.

[Gingerfinch]

You're getting a bit defensive about Hales, splinters. He's quite clearly under pressure to perform, having had a bad series, in a series defeat. I'm certain the 'new' England will be patient with him, but he either has to score a few, or at least get us a quick start, which is surely the reason he was brought in for?