Pakistan v England 2nd Test, Dubai, Oct 22-26

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Re: Pakistan v England 2nd Test, Dubai, Oct 22-26

Postby sussexpob » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:51 pm

This is probably what annoys me most about Ben Stokes though, not him or his performances, but the double standards.

Mo and Ben have basically the same test usefulness as each other so far, one slightly better bowling, the other slightly better batting.

Yet Mo has exceeded expectations and is told he is a failure. Ben is lauded for being the next legend of the game, despite consistently failing to meet his potential.
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Re: Pakistan v England 2nd Test, Dubai, Oct 22-26

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:51 pm

But... you might not go on picking the Bombay Bad Boy, having tasted it in action.

Alternatively, you might like to eat it raw...
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Re: Pakistan v England 2nd Test, Dubai, Oct 22-26

Postby Gingerfinch » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:56 pm

sussexpob wrote:This is probably what annoys me most about Ben Stokes though, not him or his performances, but the double standards.

Mo and Ben have basically the same test usefulness as each other so far, one slightly better bowling, the other slightly better batting.

Yet Mo has exceeded expectations and is told he is a failure. Ben is lauded for being the next legend of the game, despite consistently failing to meet his potential.


Difference being, Ali is picked as our leading spinner, wheras Stokes is a fourth seamer. There's more pressure on Ali to perform with the ball.
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Re: Pakistan v England 2nd Test, Dubai, Oct 22-26

Postby sussexpob » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:58 pm

I guess the point is, you get what you pay for. Expecting such a bargain basement pick to be anything but merely function is pretty insane. Mo Ali has repaid the faith in his pick times over for me. He has done as well as anyone could ever have hoped, even if that level is very low.

I find it very difficult to criticize his performances on any level.
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Re: Pakistan v England 2nd Test, Dubai, Oct 22-26

Postby hopeforthebest » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:09 pm

sussexpob wrote:Complaining about Moeen Ali's bowling is a bit like complaining to your shop keeper that the "Bombay Badboy" Pot Noodle he just sold you didnt live up to your high culinary expectations.

Just like the Pot Noodle, Moeen serves an experience that at its best is "barely palatable", and anyone who expected different when they bought that little plastic cup for 70p, handed over the money, then patiently waited for the kettle to boil thinking they were about to be treated to a dinner of kings, must either have been absolutely insane, or have a severe addiction to crystal meth.

Moeen has exceeded all expectations since being in the team.... Im not sure what people expected from him, he was a part timer in a Div 2 county side who has been played as a front line spinner in an Ashes series, and against Asian teams notorious for playing spin. He wasnt going to bamboozle and tear these teams apart like Murali.


Who's complaining about his bowling, suggesting he raises his body language to a more positive plane is hardly a big complaint. Your postings of late have more than a touch of the 'angry young man' syndrome about them. Perhaps you should lay off the Bombay Badboy pot noodles for a while.
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Re: Pakistan v England 2nd Test, Dubai, Oct 22-26

Postby sussexpob » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:09 pm

Gingerfinch wrote: Difference being, Ali is picked as our leading spinner, wheras Stokes is a fourth seamer. There's more pressure on Ali to perform with the ball.


I sometimes think that Downton and Flower had a "trading places" style bet when it comes to Moeen Ali....

"This Ali, he's the product of a poor county environment, and I can prove it"...."Given the right upbringing, he could be just like Kevin"

"He's Been throwing full tosses since he can crawl, Peter".....

"Given the right environment and encouragement, Andy... I bet that he can be better than KP every was".....

"Are you talking about a wager, Peter? I suppose you think if KP was to lose his job he would resort to holding people up on the streets, or having Piers Morgan post loads of trash about us on the internet"

"No Andy, it would have to be much unfortunate that that... if he lost his job, his reputation, his friends. If he was somehow disgraced in a way. Yes, I'm sure he'd take to crime like a fish to water".

"You'd have to put him in the wrong surroundings, with the worst sort of people. I mean real scum, Andy"

"The Usual amount?"
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Re: Pakistan v England 2nd Test, Dubai, Oct 22-26

Postby sussexpob » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:28 pm

hopeforthebest wrote: Who's complaining about his bowling, suggesting he raises his body language to a more positive plane is hardly a big complaint. Your postings of late have more than a touch of the 'angry young man' syndrome about them. Perhaps you should lay off the Bombay Badboy pot noodles for a while.


:?
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Re: Pakistan v England 2nd Test, Dubai, Oct 22-26

Postby KipperJohn » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:42 pm

sussexpob wrote:
Gingerfinch wrote: Difference being, Ali is picked as our leading spinner, wheras Stokes is a fourth seamer. There's more pressure on Ali to perform with the ball.


I sometimes think that Downton and Flower had a "trading places" style bet when it comes to Moeen Ali....

"This Ali, he's the product of a poor county environment, and I can prove it"...."Given the right upbringing, he could be just like Kevin"

"He's Been throwing full tosses since he can crawl, Peter".....

"Given the right environment and encouragement, Andy... I bet that he can be better than KP every was".....

"Are you talking about a wager, Peter? I suppose you think if KP was to lose his job he would resort to holding people up on the streets, or having Piers Morgan post loads of trash about us on the internet"


"No Andy, it would have to be much unfortunate that that... if he lost his job, his reputation, his friends. If he was somehow disgraced in a way. Yes, I'm sure he'd take to crime like a fish to water".

"You'd have to put him in the wrong surroundings, with the worst sort of people. I mean real scum, Andy"

"The Usual amount?"


You have a very vivid imagination sussex which suits writing fiction admirably :)
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Re: Pakistan v England 2nd Test, Dubai, Oct 22-26

Postby Aidan11 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:06 pm

sussexpob wrote:
Gingerfinch wrote: Difference being, Ali is picked as our leading spinner, wheras Stokes is a fourth seamer. There's more pressure on Ali to perform with the ball.


I sometimes think that Downton and Flower had a "trading places" style bet when it comes to Moeen Ali....

"This Ali, he's the product of a poor county environment, and I can prove it"...."Given the right upbringing, he could be just like Kevin"

"He's Been throwing full tosses since he can crawl, Peter".....

"Given the right environment and encouragement, Andy... I bet that he can be better than KP every was".....

"Are you talking about a wager, Peter? I suppose you think if KP was to lose his job he would resort to holding people up on the streets, or having Piers Morgan post loads of trash about us on the internet"

"No Andy, it would have to be much unfortunate that that... if he lost his job, his reputation, his friends. If he was somehow disgraced in a way. Yes, I'm sure he'd take to crime like a fish to water".

"You'd have to put him in the wrong surroundings, with the worst sort of people. I mean real scum, Andy"

"The Usual amount?"



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Re: Pakistan v England 2nd Test, Dubai, Oct 22-26

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:42 pm

Great post Sussex!
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Re: Pakistan v England 2nd Test, Dubai, Oct 22-26

Postby sussexpob » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:58 pm

I still wonder at any point if KP was caught eating salmon from a very ragged and dirty Santa's hat
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Re: Pakistan v England 2nd Test, Dubai, Oct 22-26

Postby shankycricket » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:44 pm

Making_Splinters wrote:At the end of the day; neither Ali or Rashid have really convinced as front line spinners, Ali has not convinced as an opener, Buttler is horrifically out of form, if Cook fails the rest of the side can't make up the difference.

The only change I can see is Taylor coming in for Buttler. Personally I'd be tempted to bring Hales in and drop Ali to 7 as there is chuff all chance Ali will front up to the Saffer new ball.

And Hales who couldn't lay bat to ball against Cummins with the white ball is gonna front up to Steyn and co with the red cherry?
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Re: Pakistan v England 2nd Test, Dubai, Oct 22-26

Postby Making_Splinters » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:52 pm

shankycricket wrote:
Making_Splinters wrote:At the end of the day; neither Ali or Rashid have really convinced as front line spinners, Ali has not convinced as an opener, Buttler is horrifically out of form, if Cook fails the rest of the side can't make up the difference.

The only change I can see is Taylor coming in for Buttler. Personally I'd be tempted to bring Hales in and drop Ali to 7 as there is chuff all chance Ali will front up to the Saffer new ball.

And Hales who couldn't lay bat to ball against Cummins with the white ball is gonna front up to Steyn and co with the red cherry?


Completely different game. In the ODI team, especially with England's new approach, you are expected to come out guns blazing. In the Test team you have time to get yourself set and then go about scoring, infact one thing England have been badly lacking is a player who can take some time to get themselves into the game.

I don't quite understand, what I can only assume to be a misinformed, attitude toward Hales. The lad has averaged close to, or above, 50 for the last two seasons, unlike the likes of Lyth who was picked off one big season. If not him then who exactly?
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Re: Pakistan v England 2nd Test, Dubai, Oct 22-26

Postby sussexpob » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:58 pm

Not sure you can compare ODIs to tests, but Hales deserves a shot after the work he has put in to improve his 4 day game.

As splints says, if not him, then who? The only other name being mentioned in summer was Stoneman, that is how hard the barrel has been scraped
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Re: Pakistan v England 2nd Test, Dubai, Oct 22-26

Postby shankycricket » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:03 pm

Even in those seasons, he has had some huge scores and some long barren patches where he has badly scored a run. Not as if he has seen off the new ball regularly. Overall FC average is poor too. I'm not sure someone with such a boom or bust streak can succeed in tests. Test sides won't let him convert those occasional starts into big ones. I'd rather have someone who can be relied upon to see off the new ball even if they don't get the big ones.
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