Third Test. SA v England. Jo'burg, Jan 14-18

[Dr Cricket]

Fantastic bowling from Broad; now averaging under 29 with the ball, time to start saying he's amongst England's greatest bowlers of all time?

if he takes 500+ test wicket he should be one of the best English bowlers of all time, not sure he done enough to be an all time great in term of the world, still think he needs to be better in keeping runs down while he not taking wickets, he still look easy to face at times.

If he takes 500 wickets he'd be one of the greates pace bowlers of all time, let alone English bowlers.

nah the amount of wicket he takes doesn't give him the title, he can be averaging 30-35 in his late career and still take 500+ wickets.
it will be how he took the wickets, when and how he bowled when not in full song/tough bowling conditions.

[Making_Splinters]

wonder if anyone thinks this pitch should be banned because it finished in 3 days and 15 wickets fell on the day.

Both sides scored 300 in the first innings, did that happen in India?

Scored 200, would have scored 300 if both team batted better.
Just found it funny when people want pace in the indian wicket even though when their is pace in the wicket people complain because wicket fall too easily and quickly lol.
When pitches are quick Wickets can fall in a heap.

This is hardly a bowler's wicket, unlike the series in India where there was substantial turn on day 1.

it is india, pitches will have turn.
If people want pace in the wickets, teams should get use to it and learn how to survive on it.

Wouldn't call it substantial turn either, was the same amount of turn expected in these pitches.

Hardly, unless you're going back to the days of Bedi as a metre of what expected turn is. There has been nothing in this surface to merit that South African innings aside from an exceptional spell of bowling from Broad.

[backfootpunch]

over the last 5 years broad has 230 wickets at 25

his average of 28.5 is equivalent to 24.5 in previous eras given the pitches he has bowled on

anyone that averages under 30 in this era after 50+ matches is a very very good bowler (that is what makes dale steyn arguably the best of all time)

to have taken 5 wickets in a spell 7 times is a truely remarkable achievement

[Dr Cricket]

wonder if anyone thinks this pitch should be banned because it finished in 3 days and 15 wickets fell on the day.

do you really have to bring this up in every test match

the discussion has been done to death

sorry some joke comments being spoken on twitter.
Lol Vaughan and Collingwood and many people think if you prepare this wicket in the Sub Continent you will get the same thing, even though a similar wicket was prepared in india like month ago and everyone criticised it lol

Till pitches are reported and treated in the same manner, I am gonna go on about it, banning nagpur was a pathetic decision.

[backfootpunch]

wonder if anyone thinks this pitch should be banned because it finished in 3 days and 15 wickets fell on the day.

do you really have to bring this up in every test match

the discussion has been done to death

sorry some joke comments being spoken on twitter.
Lol Vaughan and Collingwood and many people think if you prepare this wicket in the Sub Continent you will get the same thing, even though a similar wicket was prepared in india like month ago and everyone criticised it lol

Till pitches are reported and treated in the same manner, I am gonna go on about it, banning nagpur was a pathetic decision.

well then speak to people on twitter or maybe make a specific thread in the international cricket section for this discussion

was nagpur the pitch that was going through the top after 5 overs?

[Gingerfinch]

Fantastic bowling from Broad; now averaging under 29 with the ball, time to start saying he's amongst England's greatest bowlers of all time?

Yes he is. Never thought I'd be saying that a few years ago, mind.

[Dr Cricket]

was nagpur the pitch that was going through the top after 5 overs?

yes it was, thought nagpur was a poor pitch but should have had more leeway since producing decks in india isn't that easy, especially if you want pace in them.
Delhi was the best of the lot and would be the indian version of this pitch.
even that game had loads of people complaining about it because it had so much turn lol.

just making the point that if people want pace in the deck they should know what the consequences can be in indian pitches.

By the way I like pace in the decks just don't like the double standard at play in India especially when those double standard are likely to make India produce those poor decks of where both teams score 500-500 in the first two innings.
end of the day people have to choose between a 3 days test or a dull 5 day draw. I know which one I prefer.

[alfie]

Broad has always had the ability to produce the "magic" spell. But recently they've come more often...and the efforts in between have been more consistent.

I'd suggest he has probably put his nose in front of Anderson as England's most important bowler now - though in truth they are a fine combination ; deserving to be remembered with Trueman and Statham , Botham & Willis , as the great pairings of modern times.

Has a knack of doing it in series-deciding matches , too...

[Dr Cricket]

Broad has always had the ability to produce the "magic" spell. But recently they've come more often...and the efforts in between have been more consistent.

I'd suggest he has probably put his nose in front of Anderson as England's most important bowler now - though in truth they are a fine combination ; deserving to be remembered with Trueman and Statham , Botham & Willis , as the great pairings of modern times.

Has a knack of doing it in series-deciding matches , too...

yeah if he carries on doing this no reason why I can't up my rating and put him as an all time great instead of an english great.

[Making_Splinters]

was nagpur the pitch that was going through the top after 5 overs?

yes it was, thought nagpur was a poor pitch but should have had more leeway since producing decks in india isn't that easy, especially if you want pace in them.
Delhi was the best of the lot and would be the indian version of this pitch.
even that game had loads of people complaining about it because it had so much turn lol.

just making the point that if people want pace in the deck they should know what the consequences can be in indian pitches.

By the way I like pace in the decks just don't like the double standard at play in India especially when those double standard are likely to make India produce those poor decks of where both teams score 500-500 in the first two innings.
end of the day people have to choose between a 3 days test or a dull 5 day draw. I know which one I prefer.

At the end of the day, some need to stop trying to make things fit their point. Anyone whose watched anything of this Test outside of the Douth African second innings won't be saying this is a bowler's wicket.

15 wickets fell on Day 3? That was England's lower order followed by a fantastic spell of pace bowling.

Maybe some Indain fans would have a leg to stand on for saying there are double standards if they actually took issue when poor pitches are not called, rather than just trying it on every time there is a collapse somewhere in World cricket.

[Dr Cricket]

Making Splinter I have been making that point all the time.
Abu Dhabi, Cape town, Perth.
Also was being sarcastic about this pitch.
Considering the claim that delhi was a bad pitch was because loads of wicket fell on the day.

[Making_Splinters]

It's nought to do with the number of wickets that fall on a day, but why they are going down.

[Gingerfinch]

Nearly there. Broad MOM.

Finn has a strain, according to cricinfo. Could rest him for the last match,and give Footit a go.

[alfie]

I may be in the minority ; but I don't mind pitches that "do a bit" - anywhere. Don't want them all to favour the bowler , of course ; but as a general rule I like to see Indian pitches that spin , English pitches that seam , Australian pitches that bounce : surely Testing batsmen in different conditions is what it's all about ?

Throw a few flat tracks so people can make 300 s , sure ...nothing like variety. But as long as it ain't life threateningly dangerous ... Let's see some pitches on which the bowlers can make the headlines...

[Aidan11]

Bugger. I was hoping for a ten wicket win.