Third Test. SA v England. Jo'burg, Jan 14-18

[Arthur Crabtree]

Well, they were arguably the best side ever. It looks like a Packer weakened WI side lost in India in 1978 though. England went a few years not playing them after 76, until 1980. England beat a decimated Australia 5-1. Obviously WI were by far the better side (the early eighties series went to WI 1-0 in England and 2-0 in WI, which is surprising that they were so close), but that might explain the anomaly. I wonder how England would have got on against the Packered WI side.

[Dr Cricket]

The anomaly is really explained by the fixture list.
The rankings are so dependent on the fixture list, guessing during that period WI hardly played top teams and England would have probably won against the other teams barring WI.

Funny enough I prefer the wisden old ranking system and the ICC cricket game version where each series win is given 2 points and draws 1 point only the last home and away series count, is a league system.

[Arthur Crabtree]

But then you'd get series results staying on the record for 5+ years. The rankings will probably mean less now the elite three have decided to play long frequent series against each other, with shorter series elsewhere. But I increasingly get the impression that Test series are going to be marginalised anyway.

[Dr Cricket]

But then you'd get series results staying on the record for 5+ years. The rankings will probably mean less now the elite three have decided to play long frequent series against each other, with shorter series elsewhere. But I increasingly get the impression that Test series are going to be marginalised anyway.

yeah that the issue with it.
Interesting times though since FICA and AB have both said their want Bilaterial Test/ODI to go they want some contest in the series. Even ICC richardson has said he looking at the idea and the earliest is around 2020 or 2023 when the current FTP period ends.

Really think it is only matter of time before a league/competition starts for Test matches but no idea how the format/league would work.
Although it seem very likely a division will be created when the FTP runs out, but I wonder how teams would like the idea of India/Aus/England being in the top 6 guaranteed.

The current system doesn't work and will see Test cricket dying in every other nation barring the big 3 and frankly speaking I would say Test Cricket is dead if only India/Eng/Aus are playing cricket.

Wouldn't mind a nations league competition like UEFA got with test cricket, but with 5 or 6 teams in each division with relegation and promotion in all leagues and every nation can play test if they wish to do so, although the lower leagues can play One day cricket/T20 cricket if they haven't got the time and money to play Test cricket.
Although I suspect the first 2-3 division would play Test cricket.

[Arthur Crabtree]

A few things recently have made me question whether Tests will survive at all. Not so much the crowds, cricket has survived poor attendances, as long as there has been social interest.

Something I read Andrew Strauss say something which implied the ECB were preparing for a future after Test cricket.

The breaking up of the FTP. Some countries having ODIs for Boxing Day matches. Series getting cancelled and ODIs being scheduled instead.

While attacking stroke play has been a boon, there is an undercurrent now that it suggests a lack of care at times from the players. Most noticably in the NZ v SL series. Of course, sport doesn't matter, but once we all embrace that truth, it's dead. The players sometimes seem to lack interest in enduring difficult scenarios, and increasingly fans get bored by watching them try.

A lack of flexibility in the boards is leading to disillusionment by the players. Given how all consuming cricket can be as a career, for young men with families, they have to relax their contracts. I don't see why the over thirties shouldn't be better accommodated. And feeling unwilling to commit after ten years of international cricket, ABDV seems to prefer to give up Tests.

Given all this, I suppose cricket will inevitably shrink. Without Tests, ODIs will seem to lack significance. And without Tests to refer to, the nature of the game might change quite a lot.

[Dr Cricket]

Even Alaistar cook mention in the last week that he feels test cricket isn't special any more because no fixture/games mean anything and that the FTP is a waste of time because the fixture are made 5-6 years ago and when you get to the end their extend it by another 5-6 years.

Cricket really lacks context and it basically take 4 years for a pinnacle game to be played, it is saying something when the only major trophy/game is ridiculed by most of the cricket fans.

Test cricket doesn't even have a global pinnacle game.
Ashes only means something to the Aussies/English not exactly gonna save Test cricket in the world.

That saying something when an Englishman that likes test cricket feels Test cricket lacks something right now.

Fica have surveyed their members and Irish believes they want to play less international cricket and for Test and one-day internationals to have more relevance with promotion and relegation one option.

"ICC events are strong because they have context but bilateral cricket is struggling. “What we are try to impress upon the administrators is that it is not just the commercial value and the fan interest that is dwindling but players are starting to turn away from the game because they have an alternative market now.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricke ... rnout.html


Can't find the cook comments or article but he basically agreed with De villiers and the fica statement.

Actually found it.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuter ... tests.html


TBH this is only really an issue for team outside the big 3, Pakistan/NZ/WI/Sri lanka hardly ever face a meaningful game against the big 3 and when their do it is often very short.
After the Aus series NZ, basically have no fixtures to look forward to till october 2016 when their face india as a warm up series to the england games and then after that it is march 2018 when probably a 2nd string or a strong side but not exactly caring much england side plays 2 test after an ashes tour in Australia.

[Dr Cricket]

I think ECB/BCCI/CA have made plans for after 2020 but no one really knows what yet. it very telling that the FTP hasn't been released for this period even though we know teams have signed a contract for series till 2023.

if you believe the conspiracy theories their plan was to kill international cricket when their made the big 3 breakaway, it does make sense though it would mean a window for IPL, Blast and Bash, far fewer international cricket being played but when it is played the games would have meaning which should mean more money for them and more fixtures between the top sides.

wouldn't actually mind this idea would suit all parties.
A Test league/odi league wouldn't be a bad idea with 3 domestic t20 competitions.

The current system is unsustainable and was a matter of time till BCCI pulled out of it.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Cricket really lacks context and it basically take 4 years for a pinnacle game to be played, it is saying something when the only major trophy/game is ridiculed by most of the cricket fans.

Test cricket doesn't even have a global pinnacle game.
Ashes only means something to the Aussies/English not exactly gonna save Test cricket in the world...

That's not how I feel about Test matches. Each series has value in itself, and is played for its own trophy, and its own tradition. Each series has history, context and its own world of records. Each series has its own appeal, aura even. I accept that maybe not too many people feel that way anymore. And that the mystery has unavoidably diminished with familiarity, and the changes brought about by improved transport and communications.

Once people start picking away at the appeal, even in a well meaning, progressive way, they run the risk of destroying what made it special in the first place. Much like the FA Cup.

I'm not saying the world should stay the same for my benefit. If it's all lost, we'll all find different things to do with our time. But, there is this possibility.

[Dr Cricket]

Issue with that thinking is that only series between England have history and tradition.
Really only England vs australia/India/SA have that.
India vs Australia another and probably india vs pakistan.

Issue is no one cares about Sri lanka vs Pakistan, Sri lanka vs India and other series and that is the issue with the current system barring top 3 teams test cricket has no meaning.
Basically to summarise the point Sri lankan, West indies, South African, New zealand cricketer don't see the point of international cricket when their don't play any meaningful cricket, even the fans feel the same way.

Also to make Test special special again meaning needs to be given to the series like Sri lanka vs Pakistan, Sri lanka vs India, West indies vs New Zealand, these teams need a reason to play games and win.

Also England vs Australia/SA will feel even more big if let's say the winner get to be world champion or a team needs to win to save relegation although the chances are England/Aus/india will ever get relegated but every win would be important to win the world championship.

The tradition and history will never go, it would probably increase because more rivalries and tradition will be created, you never know Sri lanka vs NZ/WI/Pak have their own battles to join the top 3/4 and one of them will always be fighting to survive relegation.

[Aidan11]

There is still a huge interest in test cricket.

If the powers that be were to end it that would lead to a breakaway. I can see world cricket splitting anyway at some point in the future.

[Dr Cricket]

There is still a huge interest in test cricket.

If the powers that be were to end it that would lead to a breakaway. I can see world cricket splitting anyway at some point in the future.

yeah interest in test cricket is huge, just needs someone to take a risk and find a way to channel it better.

[braveneutral]

Cricket really lacks context and it basically take 4 years for a pinnacle game to be played, it is saying something when the only major trophy/game is ridiculed by most of the cricket fans.

Test cricket doesn't even have a global pinnacle game.
Ashes only means something to the Aussies/English not exactly gonna save Test cricket in the world...

That's not how I feel about Test matches. Each series has value in itself, and is played for its own trophy, and its own tradition. Each series has history, context and its own world of records. Each series has its own appeal, aura even. I accept that maybe not too many people feel that way anymore. And that the mystery has unavoidably diminished with familiarity, and the changes brought about by improved transport and communications.

Once people start picking away at the appeal, even in a well meaning, progressive way, they run the risk of destroying what made it special in the first place. Much like the FA Cup.

I'm not saying the world should stay the same for my benefit. If it's all lost, we'll all find different things to do with our time. But, there is this possibility.

Well put!

[Aidan11]

There is still a huge interest in test cricket.

If the powers that be were to end it that would lead to a breakaway. I can see world cricket splitting anyway at some point in the future.

yeah interest in test cricket is huge, just needs someone to take a risk and find a way to channel it better.

A splinter group is probably the best way IMO.

The current powers have become greedy and are only interested in themoney.

Look at the West Indies. All their players want is fair pay which they are not getting. I think in ten years time the ICC will only be a small part of international cricket as another Packer-style revolution will take place.

[sussexpob]

I think test cricket has major problems. Simply put, I couldnt name you another sport where the historical progression has lead to quality of the sport slowly draining away. I watch the rugby world cup a couple of months ago and marvelled at how quick and skillful all players had become. You watch football sides in a League Two FA cup game and marvel at even the ball control of your average bottom rung football player in England, not to mention the overall skill level of the top flight. Even in cricket, in one day internationals and T20 there has been innovations in batting techniques and style that are mind blowing.

Test cricket feels subpar. Good bowling in tough conditions leads to Trent Bridge style capitulations, or we get poor wickets and no results. Ill take the predictions here with a pinch of salt, we are all cricket lovers who spend time on here debating the nitty gritty, but I cant expect new people to the game be attracted to this sport because the standards are very low.

I mean Australia were the best team in the world apparently when they came to England last, but a bit of swing made them look like chumps. And England won a series where they were annihilated in two tests. South Africa are at home now and have a team where all their best players dont seem to have their heart in it. The Windies produced the best teams ever but are wrapped in a "we dont really care" thing at the moment and as a team might not exist for long.

I honestly dont see a future for test cricket.

[sussexpob]

As for the history and relevance, I am not sure even fans deep down believe this is a selling point. Cricinfo had an article about best performances recently, and newer performances were ignored. This is because a 200 nowadays doesnt mean as much, we all know that Stokes scoring 250 against a South Africa team full of dross is as meaningless in history as a 50 against Pollock and Donald on a tough pitch.

The Ashes have been boiled to death in recent years, and the consistent touring means most away sides on long tours are sent to the hangman. There just isnt the mental will to play these series from the players, and for me this isnt a sideby point. You feel it in games, that they arent relevant at all anymore