Fourth Test, SA v England. Centurion, Jan 22-26

[Arthur Crabtree]

Hales 2
Cook 2
Compton 3
Root 7
Taylor 3
Bairstow 6
Stokes 8
Moeen 4
Finn 6
Broad 7
Anderson 2
Woakes 1

[captaincolly]

Yes, I agree. Athers ratings are a bit odd as Cook has 8 as does Bairstow.

Stephen Cook? He only played in one game...

[bigfluffylemon]

Hales 2
Cook 2
Compton 3
Root 7
Taylor 3
Bairstow 6
Stokes 8
Moeen 4
Finn 6
Broad 7
Anderson 2
Woakes 1

Is that for the series as a whole or just this test, AC? If so, I think that's a bit harsh on Taylor and Compton - they both played useful innings in England wins. I'd say 4-5. Also, I take it Bairstow has marks off for his keeping, as his batting has been pretty good.

Amazing that England can have won the series with such an uneven performance, but just as England didn't really turn up for this game, South Africa didn't turn up at Durban. That feels like a long time ago now.

This series, and this match particularly, feels like a passing of the torch from an old South Africa guard to a new one. Rabada and Bavuma look to have the talent to be around for a long time in a new-look South Africa side, and Stephen Cook has taken his chance with both hands to be first choice opener for a few years. Maybe he'll be South Africa's Chris Rogers? Who knows how much more Steyn will play?

Also, AB bagged a pair, to Anderson and Broad. I bet he's regretting winding the England bowlers up before the game...

[bigfluffylemon]

Plus Broad, 18 series wickets at 20 only merits a 7? He was by far England's most consistent bowling performer.

[Arthur Crabtree]

I added a mark for Taylor's fielding. He made a lot of starts, as a number five, he has to do more than that. But... he's new. I don't know why here is a lot of tough talk about his place in the side, he's shown some good things.

Bairstow batted well, but made mistakes as a keeper. If I was inclined to give Cook and extra point for better fields in the first three Tests, I took it off for his significant number of dropped catches.

This series was like the Ashes.Big wins for either side. SA had the better of the draw. But any sort of win for Engand has a lot of merit because it was so unlikely. Though helped by chaos in the SA ranks.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Plus Broad, 18 series wickets at 20 only merits a 7? He was by far England's most consistent bowling performer.

Seven's a good mark! He started the series slowly, and was out of sorts in the dead rubber. He was flat on the first morning in Joburg in good bowling conditions.

[dan08]

You'd think we got thrashed looking at those ratings.

[Arthur Crabtree]

If England had lost they'd be worse!

[Arthur Crabtree]

Lara in SL was a ten. Or Harbhajan v the Aussies in 2001. Freddie in 2005 is a 9. Eight for Stokes is a high mark.

[Alviro Patterson]

Surely Chris Woakes can't get picked as a frontline test bowler? And please don't trot out the inexperience excuse. He has played 6 Tests now, which is a decent sample size for a bowler (unlike batsmen, its not like they get only 2 chances). He just doesn't seem capable of getting wickets, you can't be unlucky all the time. Just not good enough, sorry.

6 test matches, spread out over two and a half years and suffered one serious injury in that period of time.

[Arthur Crabtree]

He was ok in the first Test, which made his bowling at the weekend disappointing. He struggles a bit to bowl wicket taking balls, but in Centurion he was untidy as well.

[bigfluffylemon]

Lara in SL was a ten. Or Harbhajan v the Aussies in 2001. Freddie in 2005 is a 9. Eight for Stokes is a high mark.

Freddie a 9 in 2005? You're a harsher grader than I am, AC.

That said, I agreed with the rest of your marks I didn't query, which is most of them. Cook and Anderson in particular had poor returns for such experienced players, Hales was terrible, and Moeen mostly anonymous.

Come the summer, I think Finn will certainly be first choice third seamer if fit, and they will probably persist with Bairstow unless Buttler makes an overwhelming case in the pre-season, but 2, 3 and 5 are problematic. I would probably give Compton another shot at opening and persevere with Taylor, but the number 3 berth is worrying (although this is hardly a new problem - it was pretty hopeless for most of the 2000s until Trott made it his own). Maybe Vince?

Hard to believe it's only just over two years since at least eight if not nine places in the side were nailed on certs, and probably ten pre-Strauss retirement. Only the third seamer position ever really got much debate when England were number one. How times change. Now only Cook, Root, Broad, Anderson and probably Stokes can be assured of their places, and even then Cook and Anderson had some pretty poor returns this series. If they have another poor series, questions will be asked about whether they're too old and it's time to move on - especially Anderson.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Cook had two years without a ton, averaging about 30, so he's not under pressure now. With a series win and an Ashes success on his watch (and a press who seem to forget the failures) he's in a strong place at the moment. An odd few months, with England so poor in WI but winning in SA. It seems likely to me the upturn is down to Moores moving on, but that's one of my themes...

Anderson and Broad's recovery after their own separate trials, have been big bonuses for England, and the seam bowling is strong. Bayliss is big on fielding, but it'll probably be better in uk. Hales and Taylor are emerging players and need time. Compo needs to be managed. I think they should start the summer. As should Bairstow, who broke through in this series.

Much as I like Moeen, and appreciate that he does contribute quite a bit to the side, I think England should look again at the alternatives. England play one spinner, and they should pick the best one. If there was going to be one change, that's the one that feels easiest to justify, especially with a tour of India coming up.

[backfootpunch]

agree with what bob willis said on the verdict

england have 5 very very good players

cook, root, stokes, broad and jimmy

as of now the rest aren't up to scratch

[shankycricket]

agree with what bob willis said on the verdict

england have 5 very very good players

cook, root, stokes, broad and jimmy

as of now the rest aren't up to scratch

Finn?