Bangladesh V England Test Series 2016

[Arthur Crabtree]

England players rarely do well, straight away, when coming in at a young age. Young players, even ones with talent, like Bell, Broad or Anderson, have an awful time adapting. Young players either disappear and come back, like Swann, or they just fade away. Mature players seem to adapt better, like Strauss and Trott. We'll see with Haseeb, and Duckett, but Cook is the only player I can think of who has resisted this trend this century.

[Making_Splinters]

The real question England need to answer is why there are so many new cricketers coming into this side and looking so poor. Its clear that all of this overblown coaching and player progression nonsense is not working, as hardly anyone arrives at the top level with a technique or mindset suitable.

Yet in recent times, those responsible for this area gain influence. And the suggestions are the selectors will be done away with and the cricket academy boss, who has done literally nothing, will have more say.

Its not rocket science. Regardless of past form and test records, we need to return to an othrodox side of specialists, and we need a long hard look at who those players are and give them time as a team to gel.

The short, and somewhat obvious answer is, there has been a huge transition to a focus on one day cricket at domestic level. I'd also throw in that the changes to the rules on overseas players have reduced the quality of players playing in the LVCC. Let's not forget that Hales averaged close to 50 for two championship seasons before coming into the Test team.

I think the biggest problem is how and when new players are brought in, there's little to no long term planning for the Test side, which is slightly ironic as we're all over that when it comes to the limited overs formats!

Heck there was a poster on here casting aspersions on Duckett after a single Test!

[KipperJohn]

I'd hazard a guess that Woakes might top the batting averages for England for this series....

[sussexpob]

The short, and somewhat obvious answer is, there has been a huge transition to a focus on one day cricket at domestic level. I'd also throw in that the changes to the rules on overseas players have reduced the quality of players playing in the LVCC. Let's not forget that Hales averaged close to 50 for two championship seasons before coming into the Test team

The culture in England though is that test players conform to a certain type. Hales was instructed to bat like Mike Atherton, and quite clearly he wasnt a defensive type player. We have seen in the initial ODI career, Hales also was the same. Yet when he became uncaged, he looks a class act. Asking him to bat like a snail then criticising his defensive technique, well what do we expect? Your asking him to show qualities he doesnt have.... What he does have is attacking quality, lets see that!

So Hales is 11 tests into a career, has largely failed, but at no stage do I think I have ever seen Alex Hales bat properly. Would Australia ask Dave Warner to bat like Mike Atherton, or do they say "look, this guy plays shots, he'll get out and he'll get 100s, we have to accept that"????

Id give Hales another go and tell him to play natural.

[Aidan11]

I'd hazard a guess that Woakes might top the batting averages for England for this series....

Yup -55.00. Next best was Stokes with 32.00

[sussexpob]

Heck there was a poster on here casting aspersions on Duckett after a single Test!

This comes back to the point I was making about picking the right people. We threw away our top prospects by not showing adequate patience, so when everyone knows you are scraping the barrel, the level of patience is reduced.

Do the selectors really back Duckett and think he is going to be a test player? I doubt it, not that I am saying he isnt, but the selectors clearly are going to give him a handful of tests to magic up a few centuries, or hes cast off.

Hence why they need to say, here is out best 6 batsman regardless of test records that have passed.... and we are going to give all of them a very defined role in the side, no mix and matching, and then give them 20 tests.

[Making_Splinters]

The short, and somewhat obvious answer is, there has been a huge transition to a focus on one day cricket at domestic level. I'd also throw in that the changes to the rules on overseas players have reduced the quality of players playing in the LVCC. Let's not forget that Hales averaged close to 50 for two championship seasons before coming into the Test team

The culture in England though is that test players conform to a certain type. Hales was instructed to bat like Mike Atherton, and quite clearly he wasnt a defensive type player. We have seen in the initial ODI career, Hales also was the same. Yet when he became uncaged, he looks a class act. Asking him to bat like a snail then criticising his defensive technique, well what do we expect? Your asking him to show qualities he doesnt have.... What he does have is attacking quality, lets see that!

So Hales is 11 tests into a career, has largely failed, but at no stage do I think I have ever seen Alex Hales bat properly. Would Australia ask Dave Warner to bat like Mike Atherton, or do they say "look, this guy plays shots, he'll get out and he'll get 100s, we have to accept that"????

Id give Hales another go and tell him to play natural.

I'd agree with that, Sussex. Again I've seen a poster on here - one whose opinions on the game I by and large respect - already saying that Duckett's movements to the leg side are not good in a Test opener. That said, there does have to be a balance between that natural desire to attack and when to be more circumspect which Hales, like Bell in his later years, doesn't seem to have. He's either doing his best to impersonate Cook or he's swinging the bat, little to nothing in between. I'd speculate that's to do with him not being comfortable with his place and indeed the fact that England go through openers like, well, I can't really think of a witty analogy.

The mixed messages England constantly send doesn't help matters either, I thought Compton played pretty damn well in his first Test back before suddenly the ECB want an attacking number 3 and he went off the rails, lets not forget that he was dropped in the first place for being too slow to open with Cook. We've got Hameed on the side lines who is a very methodical player, how's he going to come in and play his natural game having seen that?

I wouldn't compare Hales to Warner, simply because Warner is one off, more to De Kock from South Africa.

[Arthur Crabtree]

I'd hazard a guess that Woakes might top the batting averages for England for this series.... :)

Yup -55.00. Next best was Stokes with 32.00 :lol:

Averages.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... ype=series

Probably more meaningful to look at the runs scored, which are quite dismal.

Odd though that Woakes came out of the series averaging 23 with the ball, but didn't really look part of Cook's plans. Many have been touting for four pace bowlers in India (I think Mike Selvey wanted five pace bowlers in UAE!) but going on this series, they just don't get the ball. And if games are tight, you keep going back to the same people anyway.

Great series for Stokes.

Woakes bowled 25 overs in four completed innings. Finn bowled 11 in two.

[Aidan11]

Finn wouldn't have been playing if Anderson was fit. Not sure how he is preferred to Plunkett at present.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Or Ball. I suspect Finn is one of a couple of passengers in India, brought about by the plan to select a squad for two series.

England treated this series as preparation, and maybe that's what they got out of it. And now they have discovered not to pick Finn or Ballance.

[Making_Splinters]

Heck there was a poster on here casting aspersions on Duckett after a single Test!

This comes back to the point I was making about picking the right people. We threw away our top prospects by not showing adequate patience, so when everyone knows you are scraping the barrel, the level of patience is reduced.

Do the selectors really back Duckett and think he is going to be a test player? I doubt it, not that I am saying he isnt, but the selectors clearly are going to give him a handful of tests to magic up a few centuries, or hes cast off.

Hence why they need to say, here is out best 6 batsman regardless of test records that have passed.... and we are going to give all of them a very defined role in the side, no mix and matching, and then give them 20 tests.

Duckett is one of the best prospects in England by a very long way.

I'm not going to go into how furious I am that Hameed has been selected for this and the India tour again though.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Thankfully the tour has passed without any violence visited on it.

[sussexpob]

Splints,

Duckett may be that, but the problem is that there is a constant narrative that he is aggressive, and therefore the suspicions are he isnt a test player. The comments about ODI style making room shots is simply a symptom of this. This will no doubt mean hi test chances will be factored down to lower than a player needs to prove himself.... and the cycle continues.

KP should prove that most England cricket fans are very suspicious of attacking players getting out in test cricket by setting out to attack. KP was clearly the best batsman we had in yonks, but we tore him apart for playing his natural game. In fact, you have to really appreciate that KP was so pig headed and over confident, he never tried to change himself into something he wasnt..... you got him for what he was, warts and all

[Dr Cricket]

Heck there was a poster on here casting aspersions on Duckett after a single Test!

This comes back to the point I was making about picking the right people. We threw away our top prospects by not showing adequate patience, so when everyone knows you are scraping the barrel, the level of patience is reduced.

Do the selectors really back Duckett and think he is going to be a test player? I doubt it, not that I am saying he isnt, but the selectors clearly are going to give him a handful of tests to magic up a few centuries, or hes cast off.

Hence why they need to say, here is out best 6 batsman regardless of test records that have passed.... and we are going to give all of them a very defined role in the side, no mix and matching, and then give them 20 tests.

really the best way.
no fan of Dhawan or Rohit but they both got loads of test matches to find their feet.
although suspect the reason why england don't do it is because the selectors don't know the best 6 batsman and they keep on changing they mind.

[sussexpob]

I think one player that Hales as naturally linked to in my mind is Marcus Trescothick. I see them as similar players, but one was born in an era with a coach who accepted players for their natural gifts, and another who's era conflicts with this coaching ideal that players arent born, but can be created and tailored.

Trescothick wasnt a textbook defensive technique guy. In fact, his technique always gave you a chance. But drift offline, short, onto his pads, he had shots to punish you. If you accepted that 5 times out of 10 when you bowled well, you got him, but then the other 5 times you dont bowl well and he was going to feast.

There is room for guys like Hales, but he needs to go and play natural. There is no doubt in my mind he has the shots to do the job.