SA tour of Australia, Oct 22-Nov 28

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Re: SA tour of Australia, Oct 22-Nov 28

Postby rich1uk » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:02 pm

shankycricket wrote:
365notout wrote:There was no knee jerk reaction because there was no one to jerk to...O'Keefe's injury only thing keeping Lyon in the squad.

Lyon's performance here is an absolute disaster for our chances in BCCI. I've run out of vocabulary to describe just how piss poor he is in Asian conditions. WORST spinner ever in Asian conditions among those who have had 4 tours to the region. I challenge all the Lyon fans here to name worse.


surely its more relevant to compare Lyon to the current alternatives for his spot than a list of people who have toured the sub-con in the past
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Re: SA tour of Australia, Oct 22-Nov 28

Postby sussexpob » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:11 pm

His record in traditional Asian venues aren't at all that bad. I think he averages either side of 35 in India and Sri Lanka.

His abysmal record in Asia is entirely down to his record in the UAE, which he played two test in, and on pitches there was no historical basis to know how they would play. I also believe he missed the warm ups injured and was sent in undercut after Pakistan dominated the first test
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Re: SA tour of Australia, Oct 22-Nov 28

Postby sussexpob » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:15 pm

Probably worth noting O'Keefe went for 250 runs in the test they played together in UAE. So it was hardly like O'Keefe was wrestling him test cap from lyon
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Re: SA tour of Australia, Oct 22-Nov 28

Postby yuppie » Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:21 pm

sussexpob wrote:His record in traditional Asian venues aren't at all that bad. I think he averages either side of 35 in India and Sri Lanka.

His abysmal record in Asia is entirely down to his record in the UAE, which he played two test in, and on pitches there was no historical basis to know how they would play. I also believe he missed the warm ups injured and was sent in undercut after Pakistan dominated the first test



Please don't speak sense on these threads SP.
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Re: SA tour of Australia, Oct 22-Nov 28

Postby bigfluffylemon » Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:01 am

yuppie wrote:
sussexpob wrote:His record in traditional Asian venues aren't at all that bad. I think he averages either side of 35 in India and Sri Lanka.

His abysmal record in Asia is entirely down to his record in the UAE, which he played two test in, and on pitches there was no historical basis to know how they would play. I also believe he missed the warm ups injured and was sent in undercut after Pakistan dominated the first test



Please don't speak sense on these threads SP.


Well quite. Even Shane Warne averaged over 40 in India.

It's not as if there are any other Aussie spinners battering down the door for inclusion.
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Re: SA tour of Australia, Oct 22-Nov 28

Postby shankycricket » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:06 am

bigfluffylemon wrote:
yuppie wrote:
sussexpob wrote:His record in traditional Asian venues aren't at all that bad. I think he averages either side of 35 in India and Sri Lanka.

His abysmal record in Asia is entirely down to his record in the UAE, which he played two test in, and on pitches there was no historical basis to know how they would play. I also believe he missed the warm ups injured and was sent in undercut after Pakistan dominated the first test



Please don't speak sense on these threads SP.


Well quite. Even Shane Warne averaged over 40 in India.

It's not as if there are any other Aussie spinners battering down the door for inclusion.

Shane Warne bowled against entirely different set of Indian batsmen. Also the pitches were nowhere near as spin friendly as in recent times.
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Re: SA tour of Australia, Oct 22-Nov 28

Postby shankycricket » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:08 am

sussexpob wrote:His record in traditional Asian venues aren't at all that bad. I think he averages either side of 35 in India and Sri Lanka.

His abysmal record in Asia is entirely down to his record in the UAE, which he played two test in, and on pitches there was no historical basis to know how they would play. I also believe he missed the warm ups injured and was sent in undercut after Pakistan dominated the first test

So an average of 35 is good on turning pitches? Some of these pitches were proper bunsens and the SL side he played against, in particular, had a very ordinary batting line up. So he averages 35 on turners and 100+ on slightly flatter (but still spin friendly - see the figures of Pak spinners) pitches in the UAE! Great achievement! Also he didn't miss the warmups in the UAE. In fact, he even played the ODIs and had a decent series, so was well prepared coming into the Tests.
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Re: SA tour of Australia, Oct 22-Nov 28

Postby shankycricket » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:11 am

bigfluffylemon wrote:
yuppie wrote:
sussexpob wrote:His record in traditional Asian venues aren't at all that bad. I think he averages either side of 35 in India and Sri Lanka.

His abysmal record in Asia is entirely down to his record in the UAE, which he played two test in, and on pitches there was no historical basis to know how they would play. I also believe he missed the warm ups injured and was sent in undercut after Pakistan dominated the first test



Please don't speak sense on these threads SP.


Well quite. Even Shane Warne averaged over 40 in India.

It's not as if there are any other Aussie spinners battering down the door for inclusion.

There needs to be only 1 since I would play 3 seamers and 1 spinner even in Asia. And that spinner would be SOK who outbowled him in SL while he was there and would also provide some depth to the tail.
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Re: SA tour of Australia, Oct 22-Nov 28

Postby shankycricket » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:12 am

yuppie wrote:
sussexpob wrote:His record in traditional Asian venues aren't at all that bad. I think he averages either side of 35 in India and Sri Lanka.

His abysmal record in Asia is entirely down to his record in the UAE, which he played two test in, and on pitches there was no historical basis to know how they would play. I also believe he missed the warm ups injured and was sent in undercut after Pakistan dominated the first test



Please don't speak sense on these threads SP.

SOK was going to replace him for Adelaide anyway had he not been injured. The selectors said so in no uncertain terms. So what is this knee jerk reaction you're talking about?
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Re: SA tour of Australia, Oct 22-Nov 28

Postby shankycricket » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:23 am

rich1uk wrote:
shankycricket wrote:
365notout wrote:There was no knee jerk reaction because there was no one to jerk to...O'Keefe's injury only thing keeping Lyon in the squad.

Lyon's performance here is an absolute disaster for our chances in BCCI. I've run out of vocabulary to describe just how piss poor he is in Asian conditions. WORST spinner ever in Asian conditions among those who have had 4 tours to the region. I challenge all the Lyon fans here to name worse.


surely its more relevant to compare Lyon to the current alternatives for his spot than a list of people who have toured the sub-con in the past

But even spinners who have average records in general have stepped up to deliver in Asia (see Nicky Boje, Shaun Udal - only 1 Test but still more than what Lyon has done across 4 tours, even Rashid in India right now). All these spinners have Test records that might be inferior to someone like Lyon overall but their style of bowling might be more suited to Asian conditions and do better in Asia. Lyon has failed on 4 consecutive tours to Asia and whats worse is that each of those have been worse than the previous (not talking about stats here, I know his final stats in SL make for ok reading but he bowled terribly). I don't see the point of continuing something thats clearly not worked and expect different results. Its hardly unthinkable that someone like SOK (who has a much better FC record than Lyon btw) or Holland or Ahmed (played his cricket in Asia at a young age) or Zampa (good limited overs record in Asia) could do better. Even if they do worse, what have Australia got to lose in India anyway trying something new? We can't do worse! People blame batsmen for their failures in Sri Lanka but most of them were on their first or second tour of Asia and the conditions were bowler friendly. Lyon, the most experienced member of the side, on his fourth tour of Asia and second in Sri Lanka failed on pitches that were SUPPOSED TO SUIT HIM (unlike the batsmen) failed miserably but supposedly gets sympathized for it? And no, saying the batsmen didn't give him enough runs to play with argument doesn't make any sense since Australia bowled first in all the 3 Tests (before the batsmen even came into the play) and even if we are talking about the 3rd innings, Australia had first innings lead in 2 of the 3 Tests. The 3rd innings at Galle is the only time the "not enough runs by batsmen" argument could be considered valid.
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Re: SA tour of Australia, Oct 22-Nov 28

Postby sussexpob » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:02 am

Udal was taken apart in Pakistan and had an overall terrible test record in matches in Asia. And Nicky Boje took wickets in a series that subsequently proved to be heavily influenced by bookmakers. In fact, Boje must have took all his Indian wickets in Azharrudin and Cronje's last test match. Its hard to treat this performances with anything but the largest pinches of salt. Interesting, neither of these performances come close to Nathan Lyon's last effort in India..... he took 7 wickets in an innings.

And he averaged about 30 on his last tour of Sri Lanka. If you want to describe such an effort as horrendous, then I dont really know what to say.

Id hate to have you coaching me in internationals. You struggle to make much a team if averaging 30 in a test series is considered utterly worthless.....
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