England Versus India - 1st Test (9 Nov - 13 Nov)

Eng in India, Afg vs Ire in UAE, SA & Oz in NZ, SL in Bang

Re: England Versus India - 1st Test (9 Nov - 13 Nov)

Postby bigfluffylemon » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:13 am

Ah yes, that was the reason. Seems ludicrous in hindsight. And so we ended up with Michael Carberry being thrown in the deep end in Australia, and Trott going home. :facepalm
2022 Big Bash League FL
2023 Women's T20 World Cup FL
User avatar
bigfluffylemon
 
Posts: 6365
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:40 am
Team(s) Supported: England. Australia.
Any team playing good cricket in the right spirit.

Re: England Versus India - 1st Test (9 Nov - 13 Nov)

Postby rich1uk » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:41 am

backfootpunch wrote:
bigfluffylemon wrote:
bhaveshgor wrote:for me nick compton was the worse did really well in india scored 2 hundreds in NZ but then got dropped for batting slow in england so they can have root opening what the hell is that. :facepalm
can't actually remember a bad test in his original run and he got dropped because of a dispute with a coach and them not liking him.
not really a surprise he failed an again with the crap he got in the first instance.
not sure I would like to play for england again if that happened to me.


Agree entirely. I was looking back at his record as an opener, and he did really well the first time round. I can't fathom why he was dumped for Root as an opener. Really odd.

I think best of luck to Hammed, but I think that for all England debutants. But the English press love to build people up and then knock them down. Still, I suppose it's page views that matter to them, not talking sense. 'New opener may or may not be any good, too early to tell' is not exactly a headline that will get a lot of interest.


He was dropped because, cook and trott were the other two batsmen in the top three

And the management felt that was too defensive and they'd just put pressure on each other


compton was just wrong place wrong time in a way

they had obviously ear-marked root as the long term option to partner cook

having 3 fairly pedestrian players at the top of the order was a concern

there were some technical issues about how he had his weight back on his heels and whether that would cause him problems against the extra pace from the australian bowlers

and whilst he had never really been poor enough to deserve to be dropped, he hadn't done well enough either to overcome that set of circumstances
"I know words, i have the best words" - Donald J Trump

2012 SA vs SL ODIs prediction guru 2012 Movie Cup
2012 CB series guru
2012 Music Cup
2012 WI vs Oz Tests prediction guru
rich1uk
 
Posts: 22062
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:03 pm

Re: England Versus India - 1st Test (9 Nov - 13 Nov)

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:44 am

I think it was Compo himself who suggested that going into a match with an injury (which seemed de rigueur for England players under Flower) was held against him by the coach when he couldn't take the field in the game against NZ, his last before being dropped.

My guess is that the dressing room, which we know was divided by cliques, wasn't welcome of some players, and senior players like Swann, Anderson, Cook (reasonably, as captain) and Broad had a lot of say in what happened. Obviously KP said this, and I think Trott made noises to that respect. There was a coordinated effort by the press to make Compo's exclusion acceptable. But really it was a murky piece of work.
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80417
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: England Versus India - 1st Test (9 Nov - 13 Nov)

Postby bigfluffylemon » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:48 am

In hindsight, it seems more than murky, it seems outright favouritism.

Not to say that Root hasn't been worthy of inclusion, but clearly not as an opener, and aside from his superb innings at Lord's, he didn't do much else in 2013 to justify his inclusion ahead of Compo.
2022 Big Bash League FL
2023 Women's T20 World Cup FL
User avatar
bigfluffylemon
 
Posts: 6365
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:40 am
Team(s) Supported: England. Australia.
Any team playing good cricket in the right spirit.

Re: England Versus India - 1st Test (9 Nov - 13 Nov)

Postby sussexpob » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:49 am

Compton was probably the only reason we didnt lose in NZ, and although in India he made no lasting contributions, his use in seeing off the new ball and being willing to tire out the bowlers, showed to me a player who had a use. But the idea that this defensive nature is what killed him would also ignore the fact that the vultures started circling at Lords vs New Zealand in 2013, when he got out trying to smash Martin out the ground, quite clearly being told to bat quicker after a slow start. But its hardly like batting quicker was the call of the day, no team made 230 on that pitch, and New Zealand got bowled out for 68. Was Compton making a 250 ball century more likely to end in a drawn match, or simply guarantee England winning on a pitch that provided two spare rest days?

But that was it for Compton. It didnt matter that he had a superb series before, he played one bad forced shot trying to be what Flower wanted him to be, and he was gone for the Ashes.
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 35322
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: England Versus India - 1st Test (9 Nov - 13 Nov)

Postby sussexpob » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:02 am

But yes, its become far more than a mild annoyance that the journalist pack in England seem to gobble up whatever agenda the team management ask them to portray for their own needs. There are dark forces in hand behind the scenes, you can see it in everything they do.

England lose a big series against South Africa, and KP was hung out to dry along with the two new guys who played in the series; that being Bairstow (who was told he was rubbish against every form of bowling) and James Taylor, who was told he couldnt integrate in a dressing room and was a noxious individual. Both played 6 tests between them before being dropped, considering both averaged about 50 in FC at the time, and playing against a tough bloody team, its absolutely ludicrious.

Skip a couple of years ahead, and James Taylor is back, after which the ECB are releasing videos of him getting on famously with people. The message changed as the agenda changed. This wasnt James Taylor, the man who everyone thought was an anti-social sociopath uncapable of communicating with people, it was James Taylor, the little guy who loves having the mickey taken out of him as one of the lads.......

It didnt really matter that the "banter" seemed exactly of the type KP alluded to, or that passing him a kids bat was tantamount to making a monkey dance while people laughed at him..... no bullying culture here, only harmony....

But then within 12 months of that video, had Taylor not retired and been under pressure, I am sure being asked to dance like he was a freak while the senior players watch on and mock him would have been an instrinsic problem in his physiocological make up, should he politely decline
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 35322
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: England Versus India - 1st Test (9 Nov - 13 Nov)

Postby sussexpob » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:09 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:and I think Trott made noises to that respect


Trott is making more than noises now, hes shouting at the top of his voice. The press have hardly commented on his words, not made a big deal of it, but Trott seems to infer that the pressure of back to back Ashes series lead to a terrible amount of pressure being put on the team, and that under that pressure he was left struggling to cope, and lead to question his ability seriously. It seems at this point, Flower's attitude is one of ignorance to the problems, that other players were just about suriviving, so Trott felt he had a duty to ignore the signs. But he talks of a personal situation that is tragic, that he wanted to drive his car into a river or a tree, rather than go to be with the team, as he says arriving at the ground or dressing room was a trigger point.

In fact, Cook is on record as saying (in the last month) that in Australia he was netting with Trott, and Trott set the bowling machine to the highest pace setting and for short length, and batted for a long time being hit "hard by about twenty balls". Trott was determinted to prove the whole weakness against pace thing wrong, and Cook says for the life of him he didnt understand why at the time someone, including himself, didnt stop him. I think Cook (from Trotts words) only seemed to realise that Trott was in a very dark place when he arrived at the crease in Brisbane having cried his way down from the dressing room.

The key is, Trott seems to say that Flower offered him to take a ODI tournament off in India, which he needed and accepted. But in OZ Flower also offered certain key players a rest, but Trott infers that Flower offered him the rest, but was very keen (forceful) to tell him that he had already had India off, and that it would certainly be preferred that he didnt take Australia off. He felt like his ODI place was threatened and he had no choice but to accept.... but the extra long tour of Australia was something he couldnt cope with, and he broke down.

I think by memory Anderson took both tours off. There wasnt a hint of bad press about that. In fact, when Anderson was rested the press and team seemed to paint a picture of Anderson being physically restrained in a chair to stop him from running on a field. He loved playing that much (although Anderson has been directly quoted in talking about needing a rest). Trott needed time off, and he had idiots like Vaughan telling him he was misusing the excuse of mental illness to escape a tough tour, that he was weak. Why the ECB told the press Trott was mentally not right is anyones guess, he could have easily broken a finger in a net and flown home for treatment. But its clear the ECB and Flower wanted to punish him, and they wanted the press to punish him, because like their words, Flower believed it.... Flower paid no credenance to this stress or this and that, it was p*ssy talk.
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 35322
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: England Versus India - 1st Test (9 Nov - 13 Nov)

Postby sussexpob » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:12 pm

I guess the latest one is Anderson. In late September the press clearly wrote articles about Anderson being potentially rested for BD and India tests, he himself is directly quoted as saying at 34 a 7 test back to back tour of the subcontinent would be a huge struggle, and that in order to get the best out of him the management needed to rest him now and then.

Yet after saying that, all of a sudden Hales and Morgan pull out of the tour on security concerns, and in the press pack mobbing afterwards Anderson's potential rest time was re-categorised as an injury which would helpfully rule him out of the period he directly said he might be rested for, and that allowed the ECB hacks to go after the other "deserters" with all the venom they could.

Its a disgrace really. Oliver Holt wrote possibly the worst article I have read in several yers when he slated Morgan for not turning up to a safe BD.... on the basis that the tank convoy he was taken into the ground with clearly showed it was safe, and Morgan was being a disgrace.
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 35322
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: England Versus India - 1st Test (9 Nov - 13 Nov)

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:49 pm

Making_Splinters wrote:I genuinely feel sorry for Hameed, he didn't ask for this nonsense.


Bayliss compares him to Sangakkara!
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80417
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: England Versus India - 1st Test (9 Nov - 13 Nov)

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:50 pm

I presume he's from the right kind of family.
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80417
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: England Versus India - 1st Test (9 Nov - 13 Nov)

Postby Gingerfinch » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:51 pm

Wasn't Hick touted as the new Bradman? Didn't work out too well for him.
2014 SA-Oz Tests fantasy guru
User avatar
Gingerfinch
 
Posts: 21375
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:18 pm
Location: Oxford
Team(s) Supported: Wycombe Wanderers.

Re: England Versus India - 1st Test (9 Nov - 13 Nov)

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:51 pm

Adam Voges?
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80417
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: England Versus India - 1st Test (9 Nov - 13 Nov)

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:53 pm

Another way of looking at it is that he's impressing a lot of experienced watchers, and he's pretty intensely dedicated. And they're good things. So a good start for Haseeb. We all know how the ECB machine works.
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80417
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: England Versus India - 1st Test (9 Nov - 13 Nov)

Postby alfie » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:01 pm

Gingerfinch wrote:
bigfluffylemon wrote:I see the press are already declaring Hammed to be the Next Big Thing in English cricket, on the basis of one match.

He played well, no doubt, but let's give him the whole series and the home summer before making long term judgements.


They'll want him dropped if he has a couple of low scores.


I don't deny the press tend to go overboard - in both directions. But having watched Hameed in that second innings I really do think he is the best opening prospect I've seen since Strauss retired.
Sure he will have to perform in other conditions , against very different attacks ; and it may take him a while to truly settle. But I am prepared to stick my neck out on this one. Much like Cook , and Root (who coincidentally both started on Indian tours ) he looks the part from the off. Not sure you could say the same of any of the others trialled over the last four years.
alfie
 
Posts: 7212
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:26 am

Re: England Versus India - 1st Test (9 Nov - 13 Nov)

Postby Dr Cricket » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:16 pm

Interesting that 2 of stokes tons came in a non result pitch, the other at lords which is noted to normally last 5 days and the other at the waca.
Only 1 ton resulted in a victory as well.
Although he been consistent with the bat this year which is good to see and improving with the ball.

1 Cricket Major
2019 IPL Season.


Dr Cricket
 
Posts: 9403
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:46 am
Location: UK London
Team(s) Supported: India

PreviousNext

Return to Live Cricket Matches

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests