2nd Test: India v England at Visakhapatnam on Nov 17-21,

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Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Visakhapatnam on Nov 17-21,

Postby meninblue » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:32 pm

bhaveshgor wrote:Actually baffles me how the toss could be important if the pitch turns from day 1 or very early in the game.
the batting will be the same difficulty batting first or 2nd in both innings.
in the first innings the advantage of batting first might be worth 20-30 runs which can easily be made up by better bowling or batting by either side and in the 2nd innings the lead or trail is more important than actually batting last, although chasing 200 + can be tricky on the last day.

Really the toss is only important on flat india decks where the ball only turns from late day 3.
if the ball turning from day 1 the toss isn't that important, remember in 2012 while the ball was turning from day 1 teams won 6 times consecutively while losing the toss.
England twice and india 4 times.
england won in mumbai and Kolkata while batting 2nd and easily as well.

I understand people would like to bat first but team won't lose sleep or panic if they actually lost the toss like they would do in Rajkot especially since the pitch got more help for the bowler to take wickets in the first day or innings.

Also I get it that all team will bat first because no team would really love to chase last but the toss isn't the reason why you lost the game if you bowl first, literally the toss make no difference to the result if the ball doing something in the first innings and both teams got similar conditions.


Kindly check how many Ranji matches are won by teams winning toss and batting first. Also consider checking how many teams opt to bat first in Ranji matches. Only in rare matches at Dharamshala someone may opt to bowl first.
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Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Visakhapatnam on Nov 17-21,

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:38 pm

Will actually do Considering you might be surprised with the results, but with the result going to include draws with a first innings lead as a win considering with 4 day games more games end as draws and if they are results most likely toss is more important which basically kills the argument.

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Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Visakhapatnam on Nov 17-21,

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:42 pm

Think about it adi do you honestly think the toss is the main factor that India wins so many games in india or Mumbai wins so many Domestic titles.

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Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Visakhapatnam on Nov 17-21,

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:46 pm

looking at first glance adi you might be wrong on the toss, will post the result soon when I go through all the results, surprised how many sides are winning so far though thought they be way more draws.

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Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Visakhapatnam on Nov 17-21,

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:53 pm

Won the toss and won the game 2
Won the toss and loss the game. 2
plus won the toss and field first and won the game with links as well 2.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ranji-troph ... 53469.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ranji-troph ... 53471.html
great start so far both team winning the toss and winning the game field first, yeah toss is so important adi.
not even been through 4 games yet and results not looking so great for you adi.

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Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Visakhapatnam on Nov 17-21,

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:01 pm

Won the toss and won the game 7
Won the toss and loss the game. 7
plus won the toss and field first and won the game with links as well 7.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ranji-troph ... 53457.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ranji-troph ... 53497.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ranji-troph ... 53501.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ranji-troph ... 53501.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ranji-troph ... 53489.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ranji-troph ... 53503.html

lol I might as well just stop since this proves my point.
quite interesting how many sides are bowling first, thought batting first is a huge advantage in india lol.
Going to stop now since you are clearly wrong considering the toss isn't significant in Ranji trophy or Test cricket in india.

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Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Visakhapatnam on Nov 17-21,

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:03 pm

Anyway Adi or anyone if you need more prove on the Toss happy to go through it more and provide it to you but with a bigger sample you will find it more 50-50 in the results, you will never get a correlation of toss being important and victory.
if you do it is very likely that some other factor is the main reason for the result, cough Asian sides winning 18 toss in a row or something like that and then winning those games which they were always going to win because they are the better side.

Toss isn't important end of Discussion.
if the toss was really important no one would play cricket in asia and the toss would be scrapped ages ago and India or mumbai would never be so strong considering if the toss was so crucial Mumbai can't win so many titles or India having a crazy win ratio in india.

Actually baffling how anyone watching cricket in india can think the toss is so important in the first place.
No question sides would love to bat first, but it doesn't hurt or affect the game if they bowl first.
The better team will always win or do better.

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Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Visakhapatnam on Nov 17-21,

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:09 pm

Surprising part I found was how many teams were winning the toss and bowling first.
didn't really expect that but then again Ranji trophy does help the pace men early on and first thing does help pace men a lot.

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Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Visakhapatnam on Nov 17-21,

Postby backfootpunch » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:27 am

Wonder how they will bring jimmy in

Maybe if stokes can't be relied on to bowl they might drop Duckett

Then the team would be this

Cook
Hameed
root
moeen
stokes
bairstow
woakes
rashid
Ansari
broad
jimmy

If stokes can bowl then woakes may have to make way

I'd imagine we will be getting a raging Turner so 3 spinners is a must
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Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Visakhapatnam on Nov 17-21,

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:12 am

Indians reporting on twitter that if the ball turns early in Vizag than day 1 going to offer the quickest turn with day 1 generally being the quickest day with the pitch just getting slower and lower as the game goes on.

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Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Visakhapatnam on Nov 17-21,

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:19 am

Sussex won't be happy now with the media already making excuses if Stokes fails in the winter.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricke ... India.html
Wow surprising stat he only batted once more than 200 balls.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2016 ... ia-despit/

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Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Visakhapatnam on Nov 17-21,

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:28 am

Also quite Funny how Nasser still think the NZ series was a rank turner, expect the Vizag pitch to play similar to the Kanpur game with turn on day 1, I be very surprised if the pitch doesn't help the spinner or bowlers on day 1 and all the help start from day 2.
if the ball doing something on day 2 it will be doing something on day 1.

Doubt it will be a rank turner though but expect help for the bowlers early on and throughout the game.
very similar to the nz games where spinners get turn throughout the game but good enough batting conditions to score runs.

Hopefully india lose the toss tomorrow.

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Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Visakhapatnam on Nov 17-21,

Postby hopeforthebest » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:12 am

Strange talk coming from Cook about Woakes. He has a little niggle but he's fit to play, just wear and tear. Must decide whether to rotate him or play him. Surely they should know what is best for the players health and what is a little niggle?
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Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Visakhapatnam on Nov 17-21,

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:14 am

Knee injury. Sounds like we're being made ready for Woakes being left out.
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Re: 2nd Test: India v England at Visakhapatnam on Nov 17-21,

Postby hopeforthebest » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:36 am

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Knee injury. Sounds like we're being made ready for Woakes being left out.


A kneen problem for a fast bowler is hardly a little niggle. With the game begining in a relatively short time you would imagine the decision has been made.
Work expands to fill the time available, so why do today what can be put off until tomorrow.


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