Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

someone needs to fact check BBC articles before they are published

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38392482

it says that Moeen averaged 50+ with the bat in both 2015 and 2016 but someone was looking at his strikerates i think which are both over 50 whereas his batting averages were 24 in 2015 and 47 this year

i'll be honest i was surprised when i saw how good that average was in 2016, and maybe does suggest he can play as a specialist bat, altho i do have reservations about the brain freezes he has

Not surprised at Moeen's average - he's had a good year and some of the criticism has been excessive. Probably only Root and Bairstow would have done better with the bat, and Stokes is probably similar to Moeen.

Just wait till your boys have to come overseas. You're bloody good at home, almost as good as any side have ever been, let's see that against a decent seam attack in home conditions.

I accept Kphli is vastly under rated, but get over to England, Australia or South Africa and look half as dominant as you do at home!

Making_Splinters wrote:Just wait till your boys have to come overseas. You're bloody good at home, almost as good as any side have ever been, let's see that against a decent seam attack in home conditions.

I accept Kphli is vastly under rated, but get over to England, Australia or South Africa and look half as dominant as you do at home!

True, that will be the test. However, it is satisfying at the moment after some of the nonsense that I heard from Eng fans at lords and the Oval last time Ind played here.

Kohli was superb in Aus last time we played tests there and Rahane has been brilliant overseas - Rahul and Vijay are showing promise and Pujara should be ok as well. So overall the batting should be ok. I'm not convinced by Saha's batting - would be much more comfortable if we had Naman Ojha in there.

Our bowling will be interesting though - Shami, Ishant, Umesh and Bhuvi looks a decent seam attack - however that would leave us a long tail! Going in with only 3 of the 4 in seam friendly conditions feels light though. We also need to keep them all fit.

Difficult to see how we can play both Ashwin and Jadeja in seam friendly conditions so Jadeja would miss out.

An away XI - Vijay, Rahul, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Ojha, Ashwin, Bhuvi, Shami, Umesh, Ishant

Red Devil wrote:Not surprised at Moeen's average - he's had a good year and some of the criticism has been excessive. Probably only Root and Bairstow would have done better with the bat, and Stokes is probably similar to Moeen.

I was just looking at Moeen's bowling figures though, and he's on track to be one of the worst spinners to take 100 wickets. He only needs two more, which he almost certainly will get if he plays again in the summer, but if he does he will have the second worst average and the absolute worst economy rate (by a long way) of any spinner to achieve the feat.

Funnily enough, and perhaps as a corollary to the above stats, his strike rate is actually quite good.

bigfluffylemon wrote:

Red Devil wrote:Not surprised at Moeen's average - he's had a good year and some of the criticism has been excessive. Probably only Root and Bairstow would have done better with the bat, and Stokes is probably similar to Moeen.

I was just looking at Moeen's bowling figures though, and he's on track to be one of the worst spinners to take 100 wickets. He only needs two more, which he almost certainly will get if he plays again in the summer, but if he does he will have the second worst average and the absolute worst economy rate (by a long way) of any spinner to achieve the feat.

Funnily enough, and perhaps as a corollary to the above stats, his strike rate is actually quite good.

That really talks to the quality of Eng spinners in that there have not been better options available.

India were similar with Ishant - his test record was really poor for a long time but India's seam bowling was weak and so he kept being selected.

At least with Moeen you have him contributing with the bat.

Making_Splinters wrote:Just wait till your boys have to come overseas. You're bloody good at home, almost as good as any side have ever been, let's see that against a decent seam attack in home conditions.

I accept Kphli is vastly under rated, but get over to England, Australia or South Africa and look half as dominant as you do at home!

Technically didn't india achieve that last time.
Lost 2-0 to Aus
Won a test in England.
lost 1-0 in NZ but had 2 very good chances of winning both test.
Could have won a test in SA and 1-0 to them isn't a bad result.

ok they didn't win a series but were competitive and ok to other test team now in overseas/alien conditions.

Considering in the past 5 yrs only England and SA have won series overseas in alien conditions and please Aus wins in SA don't count.

TBH I reckon compared to 2014 this side should be better considering they touring for the 2nd time.
they could win 2 of the overseas series next time around.
I be surprised if India embarrass themselves in 2017/18/19.
Reckon india might get results like they got in 2006-2009 period overseas, think they still lost overseas to Australia, SA but it was missed opportunities and India didn't really get embarrassed and they won series in NZ, England, WI etc.
Struggling to see how india will get thrashed overseas at the moment, not saying they will win Test matches or Series but they probably going to give SA, NZ, England,Australia a run for their money like india did in 2006-2009.

Red Devil wrote:

bigfluffylemon wrote:

Red Devil wrote:Not surprised at Moeen's average - he's had a good year and some of the criticism has been excessive. Probably only Root and Bairstow would have done better with the bat, and Stokes is probably similar to Moeen.

I was just looking at Moeen's bowling figures though, and he's on track to be one of the worst spinners to take 100 wickets. He only needs two more, which he almost certainly will get if he plays again in the summer, but if he does he will have the second worst average and the absolute worst economy rate (by a long way) of any spinner to achieve the feat.

Funnily enough, and perhaps as a corollary to the above stats, his strike rate is actually quite good.

That really talks to the quality of Eng spinners in that there have not been better options available.

India were similar with Ishant - his test record was really poor for a long time but India's seam bowling was weak and so he kept being selected.

At least with Moeen you have him contributing with the bat.

TBH not a bad link because Ishant is a bloody good bowler but never bowled like it consistently and it was painful to see him get wasted at times.
seeing Ali you feel the same he got the attributes to be a good spinner but lacks control and variety plus bowling experience.
although can't be a coincidence that Ishant improved soon as he got some competition for his spot in the team, suspect Ali needs that as well.

Making_Splinters wrote:I think those crying out for Leach, should take a long hard look at what has happened to Kerrigan's career. He came to promise when we were serving up turning pitches week after week to suit him, he was thrown into international cricket on a surface that didn't help spinners, got bashed for 6 overs and was never seen again. He's still a shadow of the bowler he was before that incident.

Is it just spinners who can be scarred by international cricket? Why not quicks or batsmen? The yips can happen to anyone, although more evident in bowlers. They can be used as an excuse for not playing anyone. What if Hameed had got the yips? Or Jennings? Or Dawson?

Leach isn't the answer to all our spin woes - he might not even be the answer to any of them! But the general consensus is that he was the best English spinner in 2016.

i really dont get this argument that we shouldn't pick someone who has been performing at county level just in case they cant handle tests, especially when we are crying out for a spinner

the kerrigan situation was poorly handled by cook on the field, and by the management off the field

none of us here know how leach would handle the step up the international cricket but hasn't he earned the right to be given the chance ? he is a 25 year old guy with the equivalent of 2 full seasons of FC cricket behind him not a 18 year old kid

this attitude that we shouldn't pick him because someone in the past had a bad experience doesn't make sense, back the guy to succeed and make sure you give him the support he needs.

rich1uk wrote:i really dont get this argument that we shouldn't pick someone who has been performing at county level just in case they cant handle tests, especially when we are crying out for a spinner

the kerrigan situation was poorly handled by cook on the field, and by the management off the field

none of us here know how leach would handle the step up the international cricket but hasn't he earned the right to be given the chance ? he is a 25 year old guy with the equivalent of 2 full seasons of FC cricket behind him not a 18 year old kid

this attitude that we shouldn't pick him because someone in the past had a bad experience doesn't make sense, back the guy to succeed and make sure you give him the support he needs.

rich1uk wrote:i really dont get this argument that we shouldn't pick someone who has been performing at county level just in case they cant handle tests, especially when we are crying out for a spinner

the kerrigan situation was poorly handled by cook on the field, and by the management off the field

none of us here know how leach would handle the step up the international cricket but hasn't he earned the right to be given the chance ? he is a 25 year old guy with the equivalent of 2 full seasons of FC cricket behind him not a 18 year old kid

this attitude that we shouldn't pick him because someone in the past had a bad experience doesn't make sense, back the guy to succeed and make sure you give him the support he needs.

I wonder if they are more reluctant to give a chance to someone who hasn't been through the England age group process. Haseeb isn't experienced, and he got a chance, but he had the thumbprints of age group coaching on him. Similarly with Root. According to cricinfo, Leach played under 15s with England but not after. He played for Dorset and University cricket. He's been playing for Somerset since 2012, and has played 34 FC games, the equivalent of two full seasons, and played in club cricket in Brisbane. Haseeb has played 23 fc games, but played for England at all age groups.

Ansari has played 69 fc matches. He's had a pretty awful winter. Hard not to be sympathetic. Many (including myself) felt disappointed the successful specialist spinners in CC1 weren't picked, so he may well have sensed he wasn't a popular selection. And then he had a horrendous experience thereafter.

yuppie wrote:I seem to remember a poster on here talking about Leaches action and that it was a bit dodgy. This was before the present tour.

It seemed to be known that he was close to being called.

I certainly havent seen anything about this until after the last test. In fact, the articles reporting this have all stated that no concerns have been raised by anyone through the season, and no umpires have called or mentioned his action in a report ( I think Dobell's article on the matter stated that as a fact).

The player in question is quite shocked, and the Maynard at Somerset seemed to state that it was an issue that was first flagged under test conditions in loughborough. Again, its inferred that it was a a problem a computer picked up, one that no eyes picked up.

I have my view on the matter. Judging on the reaction on twitter, it seems that view is widely shared by other people

I did some searches on this site and can't find anything. It's surprising there wasn't more chat from the CC1 about it. Vic Marks (who is associated with Somerset) is unexpectedly cynical, which is quite entertaining, as he usually just waves through any ECB skulduggery, at least until it comes close to home. I suspect a small actual incident has been shaped to the advantage of those who might be expected to be held responsible for some decisions made on the tour which struggled to stand up to scrutiny. As it was when KP was sacked. Leach is looking like collateral damage.

When A Pakistani slow bowler is sent for testing everyone gives a nod and a wink wondering why it took so long to test him and are not shocked when he fails the test. Leach goes through the same procedure not because his action was suspect but because all bowlers going into an England squad are automatically tested and when the test flags up a problem Leach is shocked. Of course he's shocked as we all were to hear the news but to assume this was a devious plan to justify not picking him for the full England squad is frankly nonsense. When they selected the squad he hadn't yet been tested.
Why he wasn't selected is hard to figure out. Both Moeen and Rashid were certain picks and Ansari was probably given the nod as a consolation for missing out the previous winter, not good reason but as AC pointed out Leach had little contact with the England set up and was seen as an unknown quantity.