Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

Too many ODI bowlers nowadays arent good length bowlers. Rather than the game getting to hard, I think more than ever the game is suited to a bowler with genuine ability to adapt and to bowl the ball accurately. The problem is, most bowlers cant get their yorkers right and go full toss or half volley. Or seem to not think about where they are placing the ball, and just run up and bowl. There seems very little craft or mystery bowlers coming through, ones that can adapt to a batsman and follow them to put the ball into hard scoring zones. At his very best, someone like Mendis for instance was impossible to get away. You oved, used your feet, he responded by putting it in a zone you could only get a single at. Someone like Malinga at his peak would still be an exceptional death bowler.

I remember when Gloucestershire were immensely successful in English cricket under Mark Alleyne, and what always struck me as impressive about them was how at the death they were able to strangle teams by sheer accuracy. Put on medium pace, bowl at pre-determined lengths that were hard to hit, take the pace off the ball, force batsman to do something different. You dont see that now. You just see people running in and trying to bowl fast. People like Jeremy Snape could barely spin the ball, but you never saw people take him over the ropes because he put it in the right areas.

Ironically, the last bowler for England I felt did that well was Tredwell. Maybe even Bopara for a time had a run as a bowler where he was really hard to get away. I would have personally risked picking Tredwell this series, he very rarely had bad games for England.

I remember the 2011 World Cup vs the Windies for instance where he managed to stop a Windies team trying to score quickly by really making it difficult to score off him

I expect Tredwell lost his place because Moeen came in and they didn't want two off spinners. But then Moeen wasn't bowled much in the last match.

The off spinner needs to be bowling overs 10-30, mainly, and the mystery spinner 25-45. But it's difficult to fit that around a strategy that is centred so much around pace. Might have tried a couple of overs from Root.

the thing for me with the bowling looks as much psychological as it is to do with skills

we keep getting bombarded with phrases like having bowling plans for each batsman, executing plans etc etc, but as someone watching it unfold on TV It looks like they just lose the plot as soon as they are put under pressure, and rather than bowling to any sort of plan end up all over the place to try and find something that works

bhaveshgor wrote:

hopeforthebest wrote:When comparing batting we should take into account that England are often facing better bowling that our opponents.

Why England odi bowling not that great so why should england get any lee way in comparing batting.

Is your sister a better fighter than you if she can knock the hell out of the 6 year old next door but every time you faced Mohammed Ali he knocks the sh!t out of you.

rich1uk wrote:the thing for me with the bowling looks as much psychological as it is to do with skills

we keep getting bombarded with phrases like having bowling plans for each batsman, executing plans etc etc, but as someone watching it unfold on TV It looks like they just lose the plot as soon as they are put under pressure, and rather than bowling to any sort of plan end up all over the place to try and find something that works

Sometimes these bowling plans are the problem it doesn't allow bowlers to read a situation and apply their own intuition and knowledge that got them selected in the first place.

hopeforthebest wrote:

rich1uk wrote:the thing for me with the bowling looks as much psychological as it is to do with skills

we keep getting bombarded with phrases like having bowling plans for each batsman, executing plans etc etc, but as someone watching it unfold on TV It looks like they just lose the plot as soon as they are put under pressure, and rather than bowling to any sort of plan end up all over the place to try and find something that works

Sometimes these bowling plans are the problem it doesn't allow bowlers to read a situation and apply their own intuition and knowledge that got them selected in the first place.

based on what we've seen hope, thinking on their feet isn't exactly a strength

i agree in principle that rigidly sticking to plans that aren't working isn't a good thing but having watched the last couple of games the only plan i could see must have been written by Wile E Coyote

This is where Splinters point about modern day captains having no influence I find is utterly wrong. Yesterday it was clear Woakes had a 11th over cut off period, but why? Morgan should be reading this situation and adapting to it, bowl the guy out if he is creating problems. When in test cricket at the start of a match do you take off a fit new ball bowler after 3 wickets in 5 overs? Its that mindset I dont like, at the time Woakes probably doesnt even need to bowl the last 5 overs well, India are in a shell mode against him and probably think lets play him out.

sussexpob wrote:This is where Splinters point about modern day captains having no influence I find is utterly wrong. Yesterday it was clear Woakes had a 11th over cut off period, but why? Morgan should be reading this situation and adapting to it, bowl the guy out if he is creating problems. When in test cricket at the start of a match do you take off a fit new ball bowler after 3 wickets in 5 overs? Its that mindset I dont like, at the time Woakes probably doesnt even need to bowl the last 5 overs well, India are in a shell mode against him and probably think lets play him out.

agreed

sticking to pre-set plans on who is going to bowl when and the underlying strategy when things go wrong is something that i've always felt recent england captains do too much

used to be quite obvious in tests that when a plan wasn't working we would stick with it throughout a session and it would only be after a lunch break or tea break when they had a chance to talk with the coaching staff that any changes would be made

i think there is a difference tho between individual bowlers bowling to their strengths and trying to keep some sort of discipline as a "plan" to what the captain does tactically

altho it also doesn't help when there is a "plan" to bowl yorkers and almost everyone ends up as a knee high full toss

Hales out with a hand fracture.

No suggestion that anyone will be brought in.

I'm guessing Moeen will open and Billings come in at seven.

Cricinfo suggesting a replacement will come in for the T20s.

Vince?

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Hales out with a hand fracture.

No suggestion that anyone will be brought in.

I'm guessing Moeen will open and Billings come in at seven.

Billings could open....

hopeforthebest wrote:

bhaveshgor wrote:

hopeforthebest wrote:When comparing batting we should take into account that England are often facing better bowling that our opponents.

Why England odi bowling not that great so why should england get any lee way in comparing batting.

Is your sister a better fighter than you if she can knock the hell out of the 6 year old next door but every time you faced Mohammed Ali he knocks the sh!t out of you.

But England haven't been facing world beating bowling either.
you probably looking at the last world cup or maybe the SA odi series when they actually faced a good attack.
pak poor, sri lanka poor, india mostly poor.
if anything apart from Australia and maybe SA all the attacks are poor or similar to England attack.
Australia only good if they got Starc and Hazlewood.
With SA it depends on the players selected.
if anything most of the depth in the bowlers in the world is quite poor now if the best bowlers don't play the rest are below par.
Australia got thrashed when Starc and Hazlewood didn't play recently.

really don't see how you can justify english batsman getting a lee way in batting averages because they facing better bowlers than the opposition.

andy wrote:

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Hales out with a hand fracture.

No suggestion that anyone will be brought in.

I'm guessing Moeen will open and Billings come in at seven.

Billings could open....

He replaced Roy in BD so quite likely.

Vince replaced Hales in BD. But he's not there now. Duckett was batting at three, while Root rested, but no one knows who he is anymore. And Bairstow was in for Morgan.