First Test: England v South Africa, Lord's, July 6-10.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Suggestion Stoneman, TR Jones and Malan may be in the frame.

Seem to have abandoned recent favourite Lawrence rather quickly.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... ne-day-cup

[Arthur Crabtree]

Sounds like- Cook/Jennings/Stoneman/Root/Malan/Stokes/Bairstow/Moeen/Broad/Wood or Jones/Anderson.

Which doesn't look right.

[rich1uk]

Suggestion Stoneman, TR Jones and Malan may be in the frame.

Seem to have abandoned recent favourite Lawrence rather quickly.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... ne-day-cup

i hadn't really heard much support for Lawrence, he is still pretty young tho and will be there or thereabouts before long

[rich1uk]

Sounds like- Cook/Jennings/Stoneman/Root/Malan/Stokes/Bairstow/Moeen/Broad/Wood or Jones/Anderson.

Which doesn't look right.

bairstow wasted at #7 but it comes back to this issue about how hard it will be for him to bat higher up and be the full time keeper

[bigfluffylemon]

Malan in limited overs maybe, but he's not that prolific in FC - would he make it as a test player?

Looks like South Africa will be spitting blood that Harmer's gone on a Kolpak contract.

[sussexpob]

The established names in this South Africa team, Rabada aside, are all ones that you feel if you play well, there isnt much substance to those paper stats backing them up.

Amla has shown signs of decline, De Plessis is hardly prolific and his best only seems to come out when South Africa need to draw a match, De Kock has hardly played tests and you feel thats a technique in English conditions that isnt going to justify his average. Bavuma and Duminy are only there because of a racist selection policy and neither have shown over plenty of matches that they are test class. Edgar is ok, nothing special. The rest are totally unproven. For the bowlers, Morke has always been decent, but not one to fear. Philander has lost some zip and his engine. The rest in the squad are again unproven.

I cant see South Africa doing well on this tour.

[dan08]

The established names in this South Africa team, Rabada aside, are all ones that you feel if you play well, there isnt much substance to those paper stats backing them up.

Amla has shown signs of decline, De Plessis is hardly prolific and his best only seems to come out when South Africa need to draw a match, De Kock has hardly played tests and you feel thats a technique in English conditions that isnt going to justify his average. Bavuma and Duminy are only there because of a racist selection policy and neither have shown over plenty of matches that they are test class. Edgar is ok, nothing special. The rest are totally unproven. For the bowlers, Morke has always been decent, but not one to fear. Philander has lost some zip and his engine. The rest in the squad are again unproven.

I cant see South Africa doing well on this tour.

Could say the same about half of the England players too.

[Arthur Crabtree]

England have Root and Bairstow at their peak. Stokes starting to pay out on his promise. The rest are new, in decline, or only borderline Test quality.

[sussexpob]

England have Root and Bairstow at their peak. Stokes starting to pay out on his promise. The rest are new, in decline, or only borderline Test quality.

Cook has averaged 48 in the last two years of test cricket, which is more than his career average. Not sure you can say hes in decline yet, and without the burden of leading the team, he could explode in the next year or two. Anderson has averaged 23 or under in his last three test years, 5-6 runs under his career average, so hes actually performing at his very peak on available evidence. Broad hasnt had a year where hes averaged over 26 in 3-4 years. Moeen Ali averaged 47 last year and rated as a better allrounder than any South Africa have in ICC rankings. Chris Woakes averaged over 30 with bat and 25 with ball and has established himself in the team now over must be 15-20 matches?

The best available first teams, Id say England or 2-3 players better.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Yes I know those stats, but they are misleading. Few would claim Anderson is still at his best (series like the early summer one v SL last year will always keep his numbers buoyant). Cook is paddling hard to stay afloat but has been relying on an excess of luck he won't always be able to call on. Arguably Broad is still near his best (though his batting is busted) but he's injured all the time. Mo does well until he meets a fast bowler and his bowling is unconvincing. Woakes is out the first two Tests.

[alfie]

Sounds like- Cook/Jennings/Stoneman/Root/Malan/Stokes/Bairstow/Moeen/Broad/Wood or Jones/Anderson.

Which doesn't look right.

Well I am not sure about Malan either yet on just one (very impressive !) white ball international. But apart from that it doesn't look a bad line up to me. The batting depth perhaps still covering for a shortage of proven top quality bats ; but you do what you can with what you've got. Bowling looks fine as long as they're all fit.

What in particular do you think looks "wrong " , AC ? (As opposed to "wish this or that could be better")

[Aidan11]

I'm another one not in favour of Malan.

It's going to get like the T20s where everyone gets a go.

[alfie]

England have Root and Bairstow at their peak. Stokes starting to pay out on his promise. The rest are new, in decline, or only borderline Test quality.

And without wishing to be seen as disagreeing with you on everything , Arthur I do have to question some of this summary .

Agreed the first three ; but if that twelve suggested is the one picked then five of them are surely in the "new" category ? Which really only leaves poor Moeen as "borderline Test quality" ...a little harsh ? His figures aren't bad ; though he perhaps suffers from being neither one thing nor the other...
Anderson is presumably drawing to the end of his career ; but we won't really know if that means he is already in decline unless and until he plays a few consecutive matches again - as Sussex points out his recent record has been fine ...and Broad (injury apart) seems to be at or near his best.
Cook ? I think this season will be a test for him : clearly he is in excellent form for Essex ; whether he can carry this into the Tests we will see ; but to dismiss any of his more recent good performances as being primarily down to "an excess of luck" is perhaps a little unfair - one might equally suggest that he has done rather well to maintain as good a record as he has while obviously feeling the pressure of several often trying years of captaincy ?

I certainly don't want to imply that I think this is a vintage team - much depends on how the newer players perform. I am not even sure they will see off SA as easily as some apparently expect. (I do rate the SA bowling , although their batting looks a little light in comparison to some of their previous touring squads. Fancy England to win , but not betting my house on it ) Just don't think the England team is quite as poor in quality as your brief assessment implies...but then I guess this is to be expected as it is probably fair to say we are at nearly opposite poles on the optimism-pessimism continuum

[Gingerfinch]

I have sympathy with Hameed. Got picked, scored runs and is now shunned, due to some poor early season form.

[Arthur Crabtree]

England have Root and Bairstow at their peak. Stokes starting to pay out on his promise. The rest are new, in decline, or only borderline Test quality.

And without wishing to be seen as disagreeing with you on everything , Arthur :) I do have to question some of this summary .

Obviously you're on the button Alfie. Just my way of looking at things. :)