First Test: England v South Africa, Lord's, July 6-10.

[westoelad]

What's even more crazy is the reason Athers and Nasser gave for Dawson's inclusion. They reckon Dawson was named as the 2nd spinner because the selectors didn't want to name either Rashid or Crane because that would imply that one of those two was being given preference for the whole series. Now that seems incredible but 2 ex-captains must be the best qualified to read the minds of the England selectors.

[rich1uk]

I get the impression that the reassurrence teams seek by stretching their batting ever further down the order is difficult to give up when the options just aren't available. Once England would have a keeper at seven who averaged 30, and then ideally a number eight who chipped in. Then they got Matt Prior, a batter at seven. And now they have Bairstow. Then they got Moeen at eight and Woakes at nine... All of a sudden they feel vulnerable if they don't have those players there. Really, England can afford to pick their best spinner.

we could still have someone of that quality at #8 tho AC, just tell Moeen that he is going to bat there as thats whats best for the overall team balance and add the extra bat, we are prioritising individual needs over team needs

having said that, even tho i still wouldn't agree with having 4 bowlers between 8-11 as well as Ali and Stokes in the top 6, i could live with it if we were picking rashid

we're wasting the luxury we should have from having the 2 all-rounders

a 6th bowler isn't needed, an extra batsman is always useful

[westoelad]

The selection for this test is a bit exceptional in that there are fitness doubts over all 4 1st choice seamers. They have to cover for this yet still try to preserve some depth in the batting. To that extent it's a one off selection and not to be regarded as a policy for the future.

[Arthur Crabtree]

No need for a sixth bowler.

True, but if England think Mo is no longer being picked as a spinner, but is one of the best middle order bats in the country, then there are only five. Hard to know what they are thinking.

[rich1uk]

No need for a sixth bowler.

True, but if England think Mo is no longer being picked as a spinner, but is one of the best middle order bats in the country, then there are only five. Hard to know what they are thinking.

he is still in the team and will still be used as a bowler if the captain needs him, we cant just pretend he hasn't been playing as the main spinner for the last 2-3 years

and as i said i could live with that theory if we were picking Rashid as the principal spinner but does that apply to Dawson over Ali ?

[westoelad]

[quote="Arthur Crabtree"]No need for a sixth bowler.

True, but if England think Mo is no longer being picked as a spinner, but is one of the best middle order bats in the country, then there are only five. Hard to know what they are thinking.[/quote]
Not normally there's isn't. I'd argue that with Ball and Woakes injured they 've chose to risk all 4 front line seamers but put in a 6th bowler to cover that risk.An imbalanced team yes but it's exceptional circumstances. I see the logic.

[bigfluffylemon]

Let's assume for a moment that you're picking Moeen as a top 6 batsman. You believe that he's one of the best 6 in the country right now. You're not picking him as a spinner at all, just like you're not picking Root as a spinner. The fact that they both can turn their arm over from time to time is a handy bonus, rather than the job they're in the side to do. This represents a change of approach from Moeen being picked primarily as a spinner who can bat in the lower order.

As such, you need to pick a specialist spinner, whose main job in the side to bowl spin.

If that's the genuine thinking, then I guess I can understand where the selectors are coming from with the balance of the side.

However, where I struggle still is: is Dawson actually the best spin bowler in the country? Really?

[Arthur Crabtree]

Rayner seemed a possible. Leach isn't getting nearer a chance. Mason Crane had a tough time for the Lions. There's Rashid who took the most wickets in India.

[sussexpob]

The Lions concept seems to be devalued at this time, the last squad contained three capped batsman who the coaches should know a lot about anyway, two are on hot mega form. If the coach renders them technically poor, why they in the Lions? If he doesnt, why are they in the Lions? What's it proving?Westley is doing a lot in last 2 years, will he get picked or is it a waste? Livingstone, the main man you want to go have an innings and prove something, went out for less than an over before the end.

And then 3 of the bowlers have done next to nothing in county cricket along with a guy who's been a test player over a decade.

In that attack, who was picked to say "bit of pressure, now go get me 5 wickets and you replace ball or woakes?". None of them, in fact. It should have been wood, rolo, dawson and plunkett bowling for the test cap.

Flowers essentially turned the lions into an utter waste of time.

[sussexpob]

The annoying thing is, England are at a stage where there are a lot of potential players to come in, we should be using the lions matches to help define who the best players are. Is Mason crane the best possible spin answer knocking on the door, or is he a young guy with no first class record bowling worse than samit?

[bigfluffylemon]

Spot on sussex. I seem to be agreeing with people a lot today

[rich1uk]

theory on CWoTV is that the selection of Dawson is basically saying they dont have any faith in Rashid as a test spinner which is a little weird after he took 30 wickets last winter, albeit in spin friendly conditions

[ianp1970]

Also a theory that Hameed's spot has not been filled, maybe why they selected a batsman short here

[rich1uk]

there was a comment yesterday about how much influence Root had on selection and with the selection of Ballance he has the team he wanted, i'd be pretty sure he doesn't want a team with 5 seamers in it or Liam Dawson as the main spinner

[westoelad]

there was a comment yesterday about how much influence Root had on selection and with the selection of Ballance he has the team he wanted, i'd be pretty sure he doesn't want a team with 5 seamers in it or Liam Dawson as the main spinner

I think Ballance selection is heavily Root influenced but interestingly Hussain said that the then chairman Geoff Miller would always ask him if he was happy enough with the final decision before concluding the meeting. That's how it should be imo and I'd hope it's been likewise with Root.