Fourth test: England v South Africa, Old Trafford, 4-8 Aug

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Re: Fourth test: England v South Africa, Old Trafford, 4-8 A

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:01 pm

Broad was unlucky and bowled well. But not as outrageously unfortunate as Morkel who was superb and had little go his way, including many dropped catches.
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Re: Fourth test: England v South Africa, Old Trafford, 4-8 A

Postby bigfluffylemon » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:02 pm

POTS for South Africa? I'd give it to Philander, as in the two matches when he was fully fit he was top performer for SA with both bat and ball. The only other candidates really are Amla (key player in South Africa's only win), Elgar (only 100), and Morkel (a pretty solid series -deserved better than his figures show).

Another thought (then I promise I'll shut up) - how many catches went down in this series, on both sides? South Africa were particularly terrible in the field, which is most unlike them - they are usually one of, if not the best fielding side in the world. How they miss Kallis and Smith in the slips and ABdV in the inner field.
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Re: Fourth test: England v South Africa, Old Trafford, 4-8 A

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:04 pm

Morkel I think. He terrorised the top order, and Cook in particular. Had Mike Hendrick style rub of the green. Unstinting pace and movement and hostility.
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Re: Fourth test: England v South Africa, Old Trafford, 4-8 A

Postby bigfluffylemon » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:12 pm

Morkel gets it for SA, good call AC.

Moeen of course overall.
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Re: Fourth test: England v South Africa, Old Trafford, 4-8 A

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:22 pm

Mo= no brainer. I doubt these pitches were prepared with him in mind.
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Re: Fourth test: England v South Africa, Old Trafford, 4-8 A

Postby Dr Cricket » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:26 pm

Although lemon.
think england have the worse home record barring Zimbabwe and maybe ban.
England might have won most of the series but they haven't been convincing or whitewashes.

Not got stats to back this up, just from my mind.

from what i seen in the past few years, england look beatable at home, although most of that been at london.

England certainly been losing test at home more reguarly than the others.
in recent times pakistan, SA, Aus, india, Sri lanka, NZ have all won games in england.
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Re: Fourth test: England v South Africa, Old Trafford, 4-8 A

Postby Dr Cricket » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:29 pm

bigfluffylemon wrote:
England now hold the home honours in their most recent series against every side apart from New Zealand and Pakistan, which were draws. For all of their problems touring and maddening inconsistency, they remain a tough side to beat at home. And an anomaly of these two sides only beating each other away for nearly 20 years has been put to bed.

probably shows how strong teams are at home if england are seen to be a strong side at home.

not many series in the world barring maybe india away to Sri lanka and possibly pakistan if that does happen anytime would an away team be favourite to win.
majority of the time the home side wins easily.
only really NZ, WI are exception now and even nz is a tough place to win at.
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Re: Fourth test: England v South Africa, Old Trafford, 4-8 A

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:31 pm

England haven't played in SL since April 2012. And won't be there this winter. Quite a long break.
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Re: Fourth test: England v South Africa, Old Trafford, 4-8 A

Postby Dr Cricket » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:33 pm

in terms of win/loss ratio.
England are 5th.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... ;type=team
india and australia are the toughest places to win test matches.
England are only ahead of Sri lanka, bangladesh, WI.
in terms of strong test teams england are last.
England did win 19 games in the period but lost 9 test matches.

NZ been very strong lately as well.
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Re: Fourth test: England v South Africa, Old Trafford, 4-8 A

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:35 pm

Changes for WI. I think I'd give everyone another game. I'd bring Woakes in for R-J. Main dilemma is if a fit ZBGB comes back.
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Re: Fourth test: England v South Africa, Old Trafford, 4-8 A

Postby bigfluffylemon » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:24 pm

bhaveshgor wrote:in terms of win/loss ratio.
England are 5th.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... ;type=team
india and australia are the toughest places to win test matches.
England are only ahead of Sri lanka, bangladesh, WI.
in terms of strong test teams england are last.
England did win 19 games in the period but lost 9 test matches.

NZ been very strong lately as well.


NZ were strong, but have dropped off since McCullum retired.

England may have lost a number of matches in that time, but they haven't lost many series - only 2 (South Africa 2012, Sri Lanka 2014). Sure India and Australia are tougher places to tour (only one home loss each in the time, if memory serves), but it doesn't change the fact that teams don't win series in England very often.
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Re: Fourth test: England v South Africa, Old Trafford, 4-8 A

Postby Dr Cricket » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:41 pm

TBH teams don't win outside home that often anyway.
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Re: Fourth test: England v South Africa, Old Trafford, 4-8 A

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:55 pm

SA found England tougher than Australia.
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Re: Fourth test: England v South Africa, Old Trafford, 4-8 A

Postby backfootpunch » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:06 am

English pitches generally mean that the away team has a fighting chance more than other countries

Because conditions can help both seamers and spinners, this series has shown that

So if you can get runs on the board and have good bowlers we are beatable

Some places in the world only favour one type of bowling, Australia fast bowlers and India spinners. And of course those countries always produce excellent bowlers for their conditions so are very very tough to beat


Though that's probably a load of tosh and the reason England lose is the hopeless top order :lol:
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Re: Fourth test: England v South Africa, Old Trafford, 4-8 A

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:30 am

Good start from Joe Root as captain. Not saying his leadership was that significant in the win, but the pressure of captaincy is in abeyance at least.
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