South Africa v India tests - Jan 2018

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Re: South Africa v India tests - Jan 2018

Postby Dr Cricket » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:45 am

yuppie wrote:Could be the blue print for other touring teams if it works.



probably would happen with England and then Australia also not really happy with the warm up games in past ashes series.
England were also not happy with the 2012 india warm up games which is beyond me considering if anything they were actually quite good and it did give game time and batting practice to all of the english players, the quality was decent as well.
contrast that with having no practice or warm up games in india before 5 test matches and the results were not pretty.

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Re: South Africa v India tests - Jan 2018

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:50 am

Bradman said he needed a month of cricket to adapt to local conditions. Maybe lesser players don't need as long.
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Re: South Africa v India tests - Jan 2018

Postby andy » Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:54 pm

Gibson has steyn most likely out of 1st test..wants to save him for 2nd and 3rd test up at the highveld
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Re: South Africa v India tests - Jan 2018

Postby mikesiva » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:10 pm

Based on those comments this could be the team for the first test. ...

Elgar
Markham
Amla
De Villiers
Du Plessis
De Kock
Phehlukwayo or Bavuma
Philander
Maharaj
Rabada
Morkel
Nobody has a stance quite like the mighty Shivnarine....

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Re: South Africa v India tests - Jan 2018

Postby andy » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:18 pm

I think Philander will bat 7 in this game
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Re: South Africa v India tests - Jan 2018

Postby Making_Splinters » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:46 pm

Dr Cricket wrote:
yuppie wrote:Could be the blue print for other touring teams if it works.



probably would happen with England and then Australia also not really happy with the warm up games in past ashes series.
England were also not happy with the 2012 india warm up games which is beyond me considering if anything they were actually quite good and it did give game time and batting practice to all of the english players, the quality was decent as well.
contrast that with having no practice or warm up games in india before 5 test matches and the results were not pretty.


England were unhappy in 2012 because they spent most of their time batting against pace bowling on non spinning tracks in the warm ups, if memory serves. Can't see why anyone would think that would be less than ideal preparation for a Test series in India.
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Re: South Africa v India tests - Jan 2018

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:16 pm

Still far better than having no practice game though.

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Re: South Africa v India tests - Jan 2018

Postby Making_Splinters » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:22 pm

I think giving your opposition the almost exact opposite of what they will face in the Test series as preparation is far worse than giving them a weak team that is in some way reflective of what they might face.
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Re: South Africa v India tests - Jan 2018

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:30 pm

Wasn’t really weak though considering one of the test had india next best pace attack and amit Mishra and Jayant yadav also played.
Also it was a myth that England didn’t face spin, they faced some spin.

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Re: South Africa v India tests - Jan 2018

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:32 pm

Also isn’t really that different to what Australia or even England do with their warm up games.
Compared to what teams get at the moment the 2012 preparation was quite good condiffering they got 3 4 day games with all 3 having decent teams out.

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Re: South Africa v India tests - Jan 2018

Postby Making_Splinters » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:46 pm

I'm sure you'll remember the details far better than I, but I don't think that any of the three teams we faced in our warm ups in 2012 fielded a specialist spinner, Yuraj might of being playing in one of them, but I seem to remember quite a bit of the spin practice was top order batsmen bowling. EDIT: I see you say Mishra played, so that would be one spinner, I assume he bowled the same percentage of overs you'd expect spin to in a Test match in India?

I don't remember when England, Australia, South Africa etc have actually gone out of their way to provide warm up matches that are in no way reflective of the conditions or types of bowling that the opposition will face. It would be the equivalent of India being given a warm up match in England on a pitch that turned from day 1 and a team full of spin bowlers to face.

The whole warm up situation has become ridiculous over the last few years and the ICC really should ensure that teams are given proper matches that are of a decent quality. All sides have been at it over the years, but the 2012 was one of the worst examples as there was no reason to be going out of the way to stop England preparing against spin bowling.
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Re: South Africa v India tests - Jan 2018

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:07 pm

In the third game, Jayant Yadav played, who later featured as a spinner for India (more than for his batting, even though he scored a ton v England in 2016) and Mishra played. In that game they were ok. In the first two though, ENgland faced four man pace attacks and occasional spinners! Still, Yuvraj Singh took a 5-fer.

But I agree about warm ups in general.
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Re: South Africa v India tests - Jan 2018

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:23 pm

Really the point I was making was that England in 2012 had loads of batting and bowling overs in the warm up games weee very match ready which was evident in that they won the series afterward and didn’t lose the series or draw the series like they did in uae and Sri Lanka prior to this.
Why was it that england batted better in India or bowled better generally in India than they did in uae and Sri Lanka.
The main reason why they did better was that actually spent 3 weeks in India prior to the first test.
The warm up games gave the batsman confidence of scoring runs, and the bowlers overs under the belt and they also had so many nets session outside the games compared that to the 3-4 days they had last year in india.

In recent times I would say England preparations for the India series in 2012 was very good.
Which is why I don’t understand the critism for it considering England won the series and vast majoriy of the team contributed to the win.

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Re: South Africa v India tests - Jan 2018

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:36 pm

In the past few years that was the only series I felt the touring team got something out of the warm up games and which is why they outbowled and outbatted India in the series.
Athough very unlikely teams will spend 3 weeks before a test match series like England did in 2012, most teams only want a weeks worth of nets or warm up games before the test matches.

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Re: South Africa v India tests - Jan 2018

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:53 pm

Also it should be noted after the 2011 overseas debacle, bcci changed everything about domestic cricket pace bowlers were important, pitches, mindset everything changed, pitches were made so fast bowlers could bowl well and were the main bowlers for vast majority of the teams.
Ok it probably doesn’t make it right that England faced majority of fast bowlers or bcci were basically using the warm up games to test if the India fast bowlers can take England test players out and basically using the warm up games to benefit India in the future.
In reality most Indian domestic pitches don’t turn much anymore, the wickets help the fast men more, which is why most teams in domestic cricket use 3-4 seam men bowling attack only few ground where spinners dominate the bowling in India.
Just this season Gurbani outbowled umesh yadav to win the semi final and then win the final.

So ironically what england faced isn’t really that much different if they played a ranji game.

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