The Ashes: Adelaide.

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Re: The Ashes: Adelaide.

Postby backfootpunch » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:58 pm

backfootpunch wrote:Alarm set for 4am, gonna check the score when I wake and if England haven't collapsed watch the rest

Not working till 2pm so planning on two 3 and a half hour naps if the game goes deep

Needless to say I had a good night's sleep not watching any cricket
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Re: The Ashes: Adelaide.

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:59 pm

forum is a bit quiet today, expected it too be busy today
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Re: The Ashes: Adelaide.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:11 pm

I've been trying to sleep off my early starts.

Still don't see it being 5-0.

Credit to the Aussie attack who have lived up to billing. All four have been top quality. It's been hard for the England batters to develop a start into anything meaningful, because of the pressure the Aussie's have exerted.

Not convinced there's anything England can do with the squad. Plunkett might have been an interesting option for Perth, but there's not much point bringing Ball, Foakes, Ballance or Crane in. Don't know much about Curran but I don't think he's got the pace the columnists are saying is missing. The main positive in the Test was the bowling in the second innings, but that was offset by how underpar they were in the first.
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Re: The Ashes: Adelaide.

Postby Durhamfootman » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:18 pm

will they parachute Woody in for Perth? I confess to having no idea how the lions are getting on
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Re: The Ashes: Adelaide.

Postby andy » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:19 pm

He should have been there from the start..He should have been there for Brisbane...series is gone IMO, but yeah get him there ASAP..
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Re: The Ashes: Adelaide.

Postby yuppie » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:53 pm

England need to change the batting line up.

And they need a bowler who can be more effective when conditions don't suit. Alis short comings with the ball are being fully exposed, especially with the form Lyon is in. All of Australia's bowler are offering something, and taking wickets. In the 4 completed English innings, Australis 4 bowlers have all taken wickets. I would say that Australias 4 man attack is a lot more balanced than Englands 5 man attack.

England made the most of bowling at night on the third day, and it was a chance for them to show what they could do in conditions that suited them. But other than that they have been very blunt. Anderson was great, but the conditions suited. England bowlers need to be able to take wickets when the conditions don't suit like the Australian bowling unit can.

Its telling that 4 of the top 5 wicket takers in this series are Australian. England need to find a genuine quick bowler, and a genuine spinner. Obviously they wont before the end of this series, but they need to for the future.
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Re: The Ashes: Adelaide.

Postby Durhamfootman » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:58 pm

yuppie wrote: I would say that Australias 4 man attack is a lot more balanced than Englands 5 man attack.

helped by the fact that the England batsmen are *modded* useless, of course
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Re: The Ashes: Adelaide.

Postby yuppie » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:34 pm

Durhamfootman wrote:
yuppie wrote: I would say that Australias 4 man attack is a lot more balanced than Englands 5 man attack.

helped by the fact that the England batsmen are *modded* useless, of course



A fair point. Also helped by the fact England pick some bowlers on their batting performances.
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Re: The Ashes: Adelaide.

Postby yuppie » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:30 pm

GarlicJam wrote:
yuppie wrote:Well that went much better than i expected:)

Will Australian press talk turn to Australia having 4 quicks for Perth like it does every year.

Is this also the last test for the iconic WACA?

Some positives for England from this match, but not enough. Australia will be happy that they can win without big contributions from Smith and Warner.

I think that they are starting to talk up the need for a backup bowler though.

As I mentioned a couple of weeks back, MM is not done in the green baggy yet. He has been in form with the bat, and is now starting to bowl again after his shoulder op.

Handscomb(e)?


Marsh has been called up.

Just how close are you to the Australian selectors GJ. Are you the third Waugh brother......
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Re: The Ashes: Adelaide.

Postby bigfluffylemon » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:01 pm

Dr Cricket wrote:
bigfluffylemon wrote:Calls for Bairstow to move up the order are only going to get louder.

England could bring Ballance in for Vince, but will be wary of having yet another southpaw in the batting line-up given Lyon's effectiveness. I suspect Vince's 83 will give him another chance in Perth, although given England's record there, he's probably on a hiding to nothing.

It's not just Joe, it's the whole side that has trouble converting (Cook used to be an awful lot better than now as well). Looking at the stats since the start of 2014 (when the current England era arguably began, after so many retirements post 2013 Ashes), England have one of the worst ratio of 100s to matches played of any team (only West Indies and Bangladesh are lower), and one of the worst conversion rates of 50s to 100s as well (worst of all the top 8 teams, only Bangladesh and Zimbabwe are lower). But their rate of scoring 50s but not converting them is higher than any other team in the period, and their overall rate of 50+ scores (50s and 100s) per game is about equal to the other top teams - Australia, India and Pakistan, and better than South Africa.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting

That's very telling, IMO. This current batting generation just doesn't seem to have the concentration to grind out the big scores on a regular basis like the players from India, Australia and Pakistan do, and like England used to when Gooch was the batting coach and the lineup featured Strauss, Trott, KP & Bell. South Africa also seem to have fallen off on that count since the loss of Kallis and Amla's drop in form.


Very intresting stats yeah most of England doesn’t convert but obviously root will get most of the critism because everyone knows he can get hundreds the rest it is usually an achievment to get a 50.
I suppose it says something about England batting when stokes, ali are in the top 5 best batsman in the country.
England depth of players is very low at the moment, they really need to see why and what they can do about it.
It is pretty shocking with the money ecb have and facilities they have and the money spent on loughbourough that they basically struggling to find batsman, spinners and fast bowlers.
TBH the only real good thing so far about the ashes is that Anderson is not finished yet and probably still got some life in him, without him I really sense England could even struggle in England at the moment.


Yep, you're absolutely right.

Once Anderson and Cook go, England are going to be left with a very poor team, with just Root, Broad and Stokes anything like approaching world class (and Stokes has only really been in that category in 2016-17, prior to that he was pretty ordinary). Cook already seems to be past his best. The trouble is, as we have spent four years proving, there's still nobody better waiting in the wings. We are really going to miss him - although a tapering off towards the ends happens to most fine players, he has 4 hundreds in Australia, 5 in India, a double in the UAE, and at least one hundred in every country in the world, I don't think you could say that he has not performed consistently for England at home and away for most of his career.
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Re: The Ashes: Adelaide.

Postby yuppie » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:09 pm

bigfluffylemon wrote:
Dr Cricket wrote:
bigfluffylemon wrote:Calls for Bairstow to move up the order are only going to get louder.

England could bring Ballance in for Vince, but will be wary of having yet another southpaw in the batting line-up given Lyon's effectiveness. I suspect Vince's 83 will give him another chance in Perth, although given England's record there, he's probably on a hiding to nothing.

It's not just Joe, it's the whole side that has trouble converting (Cook used to be an awful lot better than now as well). Looking at the stats since the start of 2014 (when the current England era arguably began, after so many retirements post 2013 Ashes), England have one of the worst ratio of 100s to matches played of any team (only West Indies and Bangladesh are lower), and one of the worst conversion rates of 50s to 100s as well (worst of all the top 8 teams, only Bangladesh and Zimbabwe are lower). But their rate of scoring 50s but not converting them is higher than any other team in the period, and their overall rate of 50+ scores (50s and 100s) per game is about equal to the other top teams - Australia, India and Pakistan, and better than South Africa.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting

That's very telling, IMO. This current batting generation just doesn't seem to have the concentration to grind out the big scores on a regular basis like the players from India, Australia and Pakistan do, and like England used to when Gooch was the batting coach and the lineup featured Strauss, Trott, KP & Bell. South Africa also seem to have fallen off on that count since the loss of Kallis and Amla's drop in form.


Very intresting stats yeah most of England doesn’t convert but obviously root will get most of the critism because everyone knows he can get hundreds the rest it is usually an achievment to get a 50.
I suppose it says something about England batting when stokes, ali are in the top 5 best batsman in the country.
England depth of players is very low at the moment, they really need to see why and what they can do about it.
It is pretty shocking with the money ecb have and facilities they have and the money spent on loughbourough that they basically struggling to find batsman, spinners and fast bowlers.
TBH the only real good thing so far about the ashes is that Anderson is not finished yet and probably still got some life in him, without him I really sense England could even struggle in England at the moment.


Yep, you're absolutely right.

Once Anderson and Cook go, England are going to be left with a very poor team, with just Root, Broad and Stokes anything like approaching world class (and Stokes has only really been in that category in 2016-17, prior to that he was pretty ordinary). Cook already seems to be past his best. The trouble is, as we have spent four years proving, there's still nobody better waiting in the wings. We are really going to miss him - although a tapering off towards the ends happens to most fine players, he has 4 hundreds in Australia, 5 in India, a double in the UAE, and at least one hundred in every country in the world, I don't think you could say that he has not performed consistently for England at home and away for most of his career.


Scoring 11,000 test runs would suggest he has been alright ;)
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Re: The Ashes: Adelaide.

Postby sussexpob » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:51 pm

Catching up the highlights, it does seem the ball was keeping low for some of those wickets. England's batting just seems in capable of winning matches. The bowling cant afford to give away situations like the first innings, our batting is hardly capable of scoring much over 300 vs a decent line up.

Root looked about as convincing as anyone would, when he said the 2nd innings proved we can still win the series. Id take 4-0 right now, I just cant see this batting order putting a match winning performance in.

We really need to address the fact that its been nearly a decade since we produced a crop of world class players. There are few exceptions. Bairstow is going backwards, Ali looks incapable of bowling on these wickets, and the other players established are all getting older and older.

Should be no surprise, the academy and player development models is being run by a coach who couldnt pick his own for toffee.
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Re: The Ashes: Adelaide.

Postby Durhamfootman » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:58 pm

we have counties preparing pitches these days that barely last much past 2 days, seemingly with the complete approval of the ECB, so it's hardly surprising that our players have lost the art of batting time and our bowlers can't take wickets unless presented with ideal wicket taking pitches. This will get worse, mark my words, because the people charged with the long term health of the game only see pound signs and the fast buck.
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Re: The Ashes: Adelaide.

Postby bigfluffylemon » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:38 am

Agreed DF. Compounding matters, the CC is pushed further and further towards the fringes of the season, when low temperatures, overcast skies or (in September) a summer of pitches drying out make conditions much more favourable for bowlers of both kinds - swing and spin. Batsmen have to attack as they know that any ball could have their name on it, while bowlers are often being helped.

Then we wonder why we aren't producing players of either discipline who have the patience and necessary skills to adapt.
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Re: The Ashes: Adelaide.

Postby yuppie » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:04 am

Is there a reason why a county does not produce a turning pitch, and then go get a few decent spinners?

You would think that would be a great way to win the championship. Expose the other counties short comings with the turning ball. I have read that the ECB is quicker to punish turning pitches than seaming pitches, is that the case?
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