The Ashes: Perth.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Mo's been injured which might explain something about his stats (arguably) but also, a little about how much they want to play Crane.

Livingstone bowls some part time spin, he's in the A squad. As is Dom Bess who is an inexperienced off spinner from Somerset, a team mate of Leach. He's only 20.

[Arthur Crabtree]

So that's two 20 year olds and a spinner who remodelled his action last summer after concerns about its legality.

Bess has played 12 fc matches and Crane (who averages 44), has played 29.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Meanwhile, Stokes got a duck for Canterbury yesterday (run out), but took a wicket.

[yuppie]

If anything, the reason England are so poor is because of Anderson. His last 3 series away from home.

SA average 43, SR 101
india Average over 50 SR 55
and now in Australia where he has 8 wickets. SR 70. Can people not see why England can not win overseas? This is England best bowler.

As for Broad, he is the strike bowler? A SR of 100 in this series would suggest he aint doing his job. When your team is 2-0 one needs to look at the reasons why. 27 wickets out of a possible 40 is the reason. This Aussie line up is not full of batting stars. It has Marsh, Usam and Paine in it

If you look at the top series played away, Broad has the second best average in South African hosted games, 4th best in India, and 3rd best in Australia for pace bowlers from away teams. In terms of consistency, there isnt anyone in the top series playing cricket as well as Broad away from home in the last 5 years, so question all you want, relative to what others are achieving hes right up there.

As for Anderson, comparing his average of 24 on this tour to Australia put him right up there with what any other bowler has achieved in the last 5 years. Only Abbott and Rabada are maintaining performance of a similar nature in an isolated shorter tour. Anderson didnt do well in India, but who has from Aus? Starc's last test tour there is nearly identical in terms of wicket average. Mitchell Johnson did well in South Africa, but his back up bowlers didnt (Harris at mid 30s, Siddle in the 50s).

You cant say players are wrecking tours, when no one is really playing well away from home.

Averaging 24 in a tough away series and being blamed for being the reason your team isnt winning is literally verging on insanity, Yuppie.

As I said before, its England's 2nd change and spinner that are the reason England are being beaten, in terms of bowling, on this tour.

My discussion here is regarding Englands performance in Australia and reasons as to why they have not been to successful. Siddles and Harris's record in India, although interesting is probably better discussed on another topic. Im also not sure that i have said players are wrecking tours anywhere?

For me from what i have seen of Broad in this series, he has been seriously underwhelming. 5 wickets in 2 tests is not want you want from your opening bowler. Getting a wicket every 16 overs when you are given the new ball is certainly not acceptable. Andersons record in Australia this series so far has been helped by having the chance to bowl with the new ball underlights in Adelaide, in conditions that suited him. He bowled brilliantly, and got 5 well deserved wickets. The problem is that for the other 3 innings he has had a total of 3 wickets. Though he has been economical which shows in an Average of 24, his SR is only 70. Australias 4 bowlers all have a better S'R than that. If you think these are great performance, then I'm happy with my sanity thanks.

I agree Englands 2nd change bowlers have been poor. But Englands strike bowlers have not done enough either. They have 900 wickets between them and have toured Australia many times. They are also bowling to Uzi, Marsh, Paine and walking LBW man Handscomb. Its not like this is an all time great ashes batting line up.

That's the last of my comments on this. Sorry for rambling on to everyone else

[yuppie]

So that's two 20 year olds and a spinner who remodelled his action last summer after concerns about its legality.

Bess has played 12 fc matches and Crane (who averages 44), has played 29.

So not looking great at present for England and Spinners.

Have they given up totally on Dawson?

Australia have Agar and Zampa coming through. Will either do anything at test level, tough to say but with Lyon only being 30, there is plenty of time to still develop.

Hopefully Lyon can stay injury free....

[Arthur Crabtree]

Dawson's another part timer intended to offer batting at 8-9.

Rayner has been doing ok in the CC, though not so much last season. The way the CC is scheduled now doesn't really do much to help nurture spin talent. Or discover it.

[meninblue]

England's senior players should have contributed a lot, but they have not done enough considering their experience and reputation. I am referring to Cook, Joe, Jimmy and Broad.

Most of the rest are inexperienced or lack quality as of now. Expecting match winning performances from those is risky.

[yuppie]

It seems that M Marsh might well be back in the team for the Perth test, and Handscomb being dropped to accommodate.

Another option for Australia and recognition that their might well be a heavy work load for the bowlers in this test. Possibly a great chance for some player to bat themselves back into form.

So Australia goes back to having 2 Mitch's in the team and amazingly, 2 Marsh's.

[Dr Cricket]

Missing something here when did broad do well in India.
Got dropped from team in 2012 and really no bowler did well this time around considering England lost twice by an innings after scoring 500.
Don’t remember any bowler having any success for England in that series.

[Dr Cricket]

Just looked broad took 8 wickets in 3 test and didn’t play 2 test.

[Slipstream]

Anderson was coming back from his shoulder injury in India plus he hadn't had any bowling for 3 months. In SA with a calf injury, two months no bowling. He needs about 60 overs to be ready before a 1st Test.

I expect Broad to be the leading wicket taker in Australia though. Stokes would also do well there. Anderson will do better than he has done if there is reverse swing but I am not expecting much at Perth. He has done better in Melbourne 23.11 and Sydney 26.92.

[sussexpob]

Missing something here when did broad do well in India.
Got dropped from team in 2012 and really no bowler did well this time around considering England lost twice by an innings after scoring 500.
Don’t remember any bowler having any success for England in that series.

Do you happen to remember any seamers who have torn it apart vs India away, because Broads 8 wickets in half a series puts him only 2 wickets behind Boult's (at better cost in Broads case) leading pacer haul in the last 5 years in tests in India for foreigner. Its almost like no seamer has done that well. And its almost like India spinners do hardly anything vs bigger teams away, yet destroy people in India. Its all pointing to a conclusion, but what could it be? If only I could know......

[sussexpob]

As for your response Yuppie, you said England are so poor because of Anderson, a player averaging 24 in the series.

You cant see how this statement sounds crazy?

[yuppie]

I thought the Aussie quicks did ok in India this year.

They didnt rip it up, but they all average around 30 to 33, and before Starc got injured his SR was 50 for 5 wickets in his 2 tests. Hazelwood had SR of 79 for his 9 wickets, and Cummins in his 2 tests SR was 57 and 8 wickets. Combined they got 22 wickets in 8 innings. Certainly respectable figures for playing in India.

Yadav was the stand out quick though.

But lets talk about Perth now.

[sussexpob]

I thought the Aussie quicks did ok in India this year.

They didnt rip it up, but they all average around 30 to 33

Well thats the point though. Averaging a flat 30 in India for a pacer is pretty damn good, under is amazing. You cant sit and say pacers arent taking 5-fors and averaging under 30, and assume its like in green or bouncy decks elsewhere. These pitches are spinner pitches, a seamer that can keep it tight, not give runs away, take the odd wicket for 30 runs, is going right up there with any of the best players who have recently toured.

It would seem that you can almost add on 5-10 runs per wicket playing India to get a gauge of how a pacer has played.