The Ashes: Perth.

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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby m@tt » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:13 pm

England just need everyone to step up! Of the 12 players picked, probably only Overton can be said to have done well. Of the rest, some have had a good innings or good bowl spell but without consistently, others have just been plain bad.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby sussexpob » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:41 pm

Anderson has averaged 15 this calendar year, no more than 22 since 2013 (when he averaged the hardly disastrous 31), and has a career numbers since 2008 that would rank him as one of the best players of his generation. He also averages 24 per wicket this series. Laying into him is a lot like criticizing the tea boy on the Bismarck for the ship being sunk. Anderson is playing rather well, considering hes now over 35, hes still at a high level.

Criticism of Broad seems off the mark to me, also. I thought he has done well himself, the problems being that the pressure he has built up has been released by those following him. The fact is, Woakes looks undercooked, Ball looks way off test class, and Ali isnt test class. Aussie batsman know this, which is why Broad is going at nearly 2.00 economy rate. They book in to see out his spell, and any pressure he is then thrown away when the feast of Ball comes to the table. If our back up were doing well, that would also tell on Broads wickets. No greater indication of that then on the first night at Adelaide where he was giving Handscomb and Marsh a hard time, but as soon as morning came and they wore off the new ball, the runs came as the pressure dropped.

Cook has played 150 tests and looks like a player who needs a break to work on his game. If he hadnt been built up as superman by the press to support him as captain, he might have realised earlier his game needed work. The truth is, you go back to probably 2010 and the Pakistan series, his technique was exposed massively until the last test dead rubber when he scored a hundred. It was clear he needed to work on it, which he did, but the problems have never gone away. Cook is a player that falls into problems and needs a coach to work with him to correct issues that seem to come into his game over time, but as captain it seems he did this less frequently.... now he needs a pretty radical overhaul, but his status in the team makes you feel like hes not acknowledging it, and will probably retire rather than try to get a second wind to his career.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby sussexpob » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:55 pm

Also not sure you can get on Roots back. The guy has been excellent for a few years now, and is propping up his team a lot. Blaming him for losses when no one else steps to the plate, and expecting him to play world class cricket every series is very harsh.

One only has to look at a few Aussie legends of the past 15 odd years and their Ashes records, to see even the best struggled more in these games.

Clarke, Ponting, Hayden, Martyn for instance had I believe noticeably worse Ashes records than their career averages. I think only Mike Hussey out of the all time legends really excelled post Steve Waugh.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby yuppie » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:01 pm

England have taken 27 wickets out of a possible 40. I think its pretty fair that the bowlers take a bit of the blame.

Jimmys average this season is impressive, but he has played 7 of his 9 tests at home. in the two tests away from home, he has 8 wickets, and 5 of those came in conditions that suited him. Outside of that, hes not been up to much.

His 2016 stats, in SOuth africa he took 7 wickets in 5 innings and 4 wickets in 5 innings in India. Then we look at all those 6 tests played at home where he got to bowl to SL in May and we wonder why his stats look so good. His last 8 test matches over seas have resulted in..........19 wickets.

If anything, the reason England are so poor is because of Anderson. His last 3 series away from home.

SA average 43, SR 101
india Average over 50 SR 55
and now in Australia where he has 8 wickets. SR 70. Can people not see why England can not win overseas? This is England best bowler.

As for Broad, he is the strike bowler? A SR of 100 in this series would suggest he aint doing his job. When your team is 2-0 one needs to look at the reasons why. 27 wickets out of a possible 40 is the reason. This Aussie line up is not full of batting stars. It has Marsh, Usam and Paine in it
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby Gingerfinch » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:01 pm

I wonder how Root would get on playing amongst good players, and coming in at 200 for 2 rather than 50 for 2? I would like to think he's have a few more runs, and in particular hundreds.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby sussexpob » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:39 pm

yuppie wrote:If anything, the reason England are so poor is because of Anderson. His last 3 series away from home.

SA average 43, SR 101
india Average over 50 SR 55
and now in Australia where he has 8 wickets. SR 70. Can people not see why England can not win overseas? This is England best bowler.

As for Broad, he is the strike bowler? A SR of 100 in this series would suggest he aint doing his job. When your team is 2-0 one needs to look at the reasons why. 27 wickets out of a possible 40 is the reason. This Aussie line up is not full of batting stars. It has Marsh, Usam and Paine in it


If you look at the top series played away, Broad has the second best average in South African hosted games, 4th best in India, and 3rd best in Australia for pace bowlers from away teams. In terms of consistency, there isnt anyone in the top series playing cricket as well as Broad away from home in the last 5 years, so question all you want, relative to what others are achieving hes right up there.

As for Anderson, comparing his average of 24 on this tour to Australia put him right up there with what any other bowler has achieved in the last 5 years. Only Abbott and Rabada are maintaining performance of a similar nature in an isolated shorter tour. Anderson didnt do well in India, but who has from Aus? Starc's last test tour there is nearly identical in terms of wicket average. Mitchell Johnson did well in South Africa, but his back up bowlers didnt (Harris at mid 30s, Siddle in the 50s).

You cant say players are wrecking tours, when no one is really playing well away from home.

Averaging 24 in a tough away series and being blamed for being the reason your team isnt winning is literally verging on insanity, Yuppie.

As I said before, its England's 2nd change and spinner that are the reason England are being beaten, in terms of bowling, on this tour.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby sussexpob » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:48 pm

Lets not look too deeply or historically for reasons as to why England are 2-0 down. Their top 8 batting positions have 6 that have returned 25-15 runs per innings in these two tests. At the very best case scenario, that equates to 150-6 (although in reality, its more like 120-6).

Its not rocket science why England are 2-0 down. And certainly not the guy averaging 24 per wickets fault.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby meninblue » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:42 pm

Aussies top performers are way ahead in this series. Starc who is Aussie highest wicket taker has 14 compared to Jimmy at 8 .

Lyon is Aussies second best at 11, Broad at 5.

In bowling department clearly the Aussie top wicket takers in this series have picked far more wickets than England's top bowlers. Even Aussies with 4 bowlers have outperformed Englands 5 bowling attack.

Even the top 3 run scorers in this series are Aussies.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby meninblue » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:52 pm

New England players are failing to replace previous prolific test players. Only Joe is quality.

Otherwise there is no replacement of Bell, KP, Cook. Even a opener of Strauss quality is not replaced.

Similarly there are no quality replacements of Jimmy and Broad. Also missing is the spinner who can take as many five fers as Swann and Monty.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby Gingerfinch » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:53 pm

And we are missing Stokes. Not saying we'd be in a better position, but he is a massive miss.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:59 pm

Monty having his personal problems just as Swann retired was bad luck for the team (obviously, more importantly tragic for himself). But I wonder if this side would pick a specialist spinner outside Asia anyway. They're quite happy to go in with a four man pace attack and leave the conundrum of the spinner unanswered. I think, outside Asia, England haven't looked at another spinner apart from Mo since Swann.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby yuppie » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:26 pm

Gingerfinch wrote:And we are missing Stokes. Not saying we'd be in a better position, but he is a massive miss.



This is very true. Stokes would be a much better batter than Ali at 6, and would be a much better bowling option in Australian conditions than Woakes.
I think of al the England bowlers he could make something happen out of nothing.

It is a shame he is not playing.

Are England doing anything to address their spinner problems? Australia have given it a lot of thought over the last 5 years. Their seems to be spinners coming through though they are a fair way off test selection. Is there something similar happening in England? Any prospects for possibly the next Ashes?
Last edited by yuppie on Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby KipperJohn » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:32 pm

I know we bowled first in Adelaide but surely one of the big problems is that there is no scoreboard pressure applied by our batsmen to give them a lift. Let’s face it our batting has been pretty grim and the failure to post scores near the 400 mark is the real problem. Quite honestly, even without looking at the stats, over the past few years it has been our bowlers who have bailed us out, sometimes with the bat as well. In Adelaide Woakes and Overton had the highest first innings partnership and Anderson and Woakes go us back into the game with the ball.

I’m not a huge fan of Anderson but it’s hardly surprising he’s grumpy the number of times England’s top order fails.

Occupation of the crease is absolutely vital and appears to be beyond even Cook lately. I’d be a lot more confident that our attack could cause problems to a pretty average Aussie line-up if it had the backing of runs on the board.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:33 pm

Well, Mason Crane is in the squad and he's about 20.

Leach is out there with the Lions. But is getting carted.
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Re: The Ashes: Perth.

Postby yuppie » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:38 pm

Will England consider giving Crane a game though? It seems like he has been selected for the tour for experience.

Ali has 2 wickets at 100 with a SR of 190.
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