The Ashes: Sydney

Eng in Oz, Pak in NZ, India in SA

Re: The Ashes: Sydney

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:32 pm

The issue of the quality of bowling that will win away from home is getting some press and relates to some of the points made above. Whether taking wickets in the CC is going to be a strong factor in being able to take wickets on a very flat wicket in Australia or on a day one turner in India. This seems close to the decision made by Duncan Fletcher when he took over when he decided to pick types of bowlers who he thought might do better away from home, with pace and reverse swing (though he (a little reluctantly) did accommodate Hoggy who became a good away bowler.

England have tried something different and something risky in this game in promoting Mason Crane and it hasn't worked either. But you can't judge a whole type of selection on one match.

The difference was back in DF's day, Rod Marsh was in charge of the A team who had a schedule of games greater than they have now, home and away, and selections were road tested before they got in the Test team. I don't get the impression the structure in place now is as rigorous as in the time of Rod Marsh, who worked with nearly all the 2005 Ashes winning side at A level.

I can see merit in selecting from players who do well in the CC, and also in promoting unusual talents. But it seemed to work when all of these prospects were sent out into the middle with a bat and a ball. Rather than now when young players seem to be hothoused in coaching clinics with Andy Flower and mostly playing short form matches.

However it may be doubtful whether other countries are willing to provide decent opposition to test the development of English cricket. Teams are struggling to get their Test sides on the ground for meaningful warm up games.
2012-13 SL vs NZ combined fantasy guru

I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 54745
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire/New England.

Re: The Ashes: Sydney

Postby GarlicJam » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:46 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:47.3C/117.1F at the SCG today!

You can't play in that.

That's incorrect (unless I am incorrect).

If it is temp out on the pitch, inthe direct sun, it got up to 57.something.

If it is official temp, the figure you quote is for Penrith - about 50kms west of the SCG. It was a new record temp for a Metropolitan Sydney site.

Still farking hot.
Maybe




I think I won something, sometime
User avatar
GarlicJam
 
Posts: 8921
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:52 pm
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Team(s) Supported: Australia, Tasmania, New South Wales, Carlton Blues, Sharkies, The Toon.

Re: The Ashes: Sydney

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:51 pm

I got it from a match report. It did say that was the temp in 'Sydney' rather than specifically the ground though.

The news just said 40 at the ground.
2012-13 SL vs NZ combined fantasy guru

I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 54745
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire/New England.

Re: The Ashes: Sydney

Postby Dr Cricket » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:18 pm

Don’t get me started on the lions setup, although at least they started to play more Home and away game albeit around march and not at the beginning of the winter.
They still got the ridiculous aspect of having training camps around the same time as the main winter test, I would do it the other way have the camps after the test and while the main test series is on have the lions games so possible replacement are getting game time.
Last time in India and this time around England had really no back up players outside squad because they didn’t play much cricket, they couldn’t even pick wood because he didn’t really have much game time to prove fitness.
2014 Prem final placings prediction guru
2015 Prem final placings prediction guru
2016 Prem final placings prediction guru
2016 open golf prediction guru

2016/17 Australia vs india fantasy league
2017 WI vs England odi guru

ANTI ASHES.
Dr Cricket
 
Posts: 8592
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:46 am
Location: UK London
Team(s) Supported: India

Re: The Ashes: Sydney

Postby Durhamfootman » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:44 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:47.3C/117.1F at the SCG today!

You can't play in that.

England didn't!

pity that Australia did
2017 Open Golf FL
2016 Australia-SouthAfrica test FL
2016 County Championship D1 FL
2016 Indian Premier League FL
2015 County Fantasy Manager
2015 Big Bash League FL
2014 WI-England test and ODI FL
2014 County Championship D2 FL
2013 County Championship D2 FL
2012 Twenty20 Cup FL
Durhamfootman
 
Posts: 30566
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:53 pm
Location: Chester-le-Street
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC

Re: The Ashes: Sydney

Postby alfie » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:37 pm

sussexpob wrote:
alfie wrote:
Dr Cricket wrote:I actually like Crane but isn't it crazy that he has to learn how to bowl spin in a test match and not actually learn this in County cricket.


Well yes. But unless you can change the English climate quicker than waiting for Global Warming to do the job , you'd have to persuade the money men to get the CC back into the right part of the summer instead of giving way to the fast food of the limited over stuff... They've made changes designed to help the spinner ...the four day game instead of three ; and recently this change to the traditional toss at the start. But it really isn't quite as simple as we might wish. There are reasons why certain types of player tend to develop in some countries more than others ; and overcoming them is not something that can be easily addressed by artificial tinkering with the rules .


This post. Id have to assume the point about not playing in hotter and drier portions of the summer was in reference to pitches being generally more helpful for spinners, and the overall point about countries capacity to produce spinners being better than England's due to pitches/conditions. I answererd asking if Mason Crane is playing on pitches so unhelpful, then why is Liam Dawson taking wickets at 26, and him costing another 20 runs on the same pitches. One cannot say Mason is playing in such unhelpful or impossible situations to develop if he isnt even producing results anywhere near as successful as others in the exact same situations.

Rich then responded quite aggressively about me misquoting him. I simply said the original post I reacted to was posted by yourself.

I didnt actually quote you. So I couldnt have misquoted you.

Either way, I think if you trace the point back, I wouldnt have misquoted or misunderstood the point you were making.


OK - fair enough. But you can see I was here responding to Dr C asking why Crane has to learn in a Test Match rather than in County cricket : and one reason is he doesn't even always get in the Hampshire team for the CC due to the (natural enough) tendency for the county to select the "safe" option of seamers and finger spinners ; which is of course largely down to conditions. Not suggesting he should be given pitches to order ; just that he needs to play in order to learn . Would be better if this were in a variety of conditions... but that is true of any bowler.

It is true you didn't (mis)quote me. But you did , it appears , misunderstand...perhaps my fault for not making it clearer. To be honest I'm not disagreeing a lot with you on this issue of expecting players to earn their places through performances - I wouldn't have had young Crane on the tour at all. Just that having seen his potential - despite the lack of success during his baptism of fire - I'd like to see him given further opportunities rather than be binned and dusted off in a year or so when they are casting around for hopefuls to go to Sri Lanka...

I do realize this isn't entirely consistent. But I think we're in a bit of a fix at the moment with a lack of wicket taking bowlers and I'm (somewhat reluctantly) looking to try a bit of an experiment.
alfie
 
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:26 am

Re: The Ashes: Sydney

Postby The Professor » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:57 pm

Joe Root out with severe dehydration
"It has been said of the unseen army of the dead, on their everlasting march, that when they are passing a rural cricket ground the Englishman falls out of the ranks for a moment to look over the gate and smile."
User avatar
The Professor
 
Posts: 2470
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:11 pm
Team(s) Supported: England
Kent

Re: The Ashes: Sydney

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:11 am

Wonder if he'll do an Eddie Paynter.
2012-13 SL vs NZ combined fantasy guru

I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 54745
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire/New England.

Re: The Ashes: Sydney

Postby GarlicJam » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:18 am

what was that?
Maybe




I think I won something, sometime
User avatar
GarlicJam
 
Posts: 8921
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:52 pm
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Team(s) Supported: Australia, Tasmania, New South Wales, Carlton Blues, Sharkies, The Toon.

Re: The Ashes: Sydney

Postby GarlicJam » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:29 am

Good first session for England, but it is all unraveling in the second - first of all, Root didn't come back out (akin to this morning), then Bairstow and Broad fall to Cummins in the second over.

Is there only 2 wickets to fall, or will Root return?
Maybe




I think I won something, sometime
User avatar
GarlicJam
 
Posts: 8921
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:52 pm
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Team(s) Supported: Australia, Tasmania, New South Wales, Carlton Blues, Sharkies, The Toon.

Re: The Ashes: Sydney

Postby from_the_stands » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:08 am

It's all over in Sydney. Thank-you linesmen, thank-you ball-boys.
"Hey, doll. Could you scare up another round for our table over here? And tell the cook this is low grade dog food. I've had better food at the ballgame, you know? This steak still has marks from where the jockey was hitting it." Al Czervik, aka Rodney Dangerfield in "Caddyshack" (1980)

2009 India vs SL ODI prediction guru
2010 Australia vs Pakistan Test Prediction guru
2012 Big Bash fantasy guru
2013 Big Bash fantasy guru
2017 IPL fantasy guru
User avatar
from_the_stands
 
Posts: 9788
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:54 pm
Location: Pandora
Team(s) Supported: Aussie cricket team, Liverpool FC (it's a long story) and the mighty blue boys in the AFL. I like watching good teams performing well. An advid fan of the Olympic Games. Looking forward to Rio in 2016 & Tokyo in 2020!

Re: The Ashes: Sydney

Postby from_the_stands » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:12 am

And Eddie Paynter played a match winning knock having spent the night in hospital. And with that win, Douglass Jardine's Englishman won the Ashes. I think it was in Brisbane, I'm not sure. I saw it in a television mini-series years ago. Hugo Weaving played Jardine and Gary Sweet was Bradman.
"Hey, doll. Could you scare up another round for our table over here? And tell the cook this is low grade dog food. I've had better food at the ballgame, you know? This steak still has marks from where the jockey was hitting it." Al Czervik, aka Rodney Dangerfield in "Caddyshack" (1980)

2009 India vs SL ODI prediction guru
2010 Australia vs Pakistan Test Prediction guru
2012 Big Bash fantasy guru
2013 Big Bash fantasy guru
2017 IPL fantasy guru
User avatar
from_the_stands
 
Posts: 9788
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:54 pm
Location: Pandora
Team(s) Supported: Aussie cricket team, Liverpool FC (it's a long story) and the mighty blue boys in the AFL. I like watching good teams performing well. An advid fan of the Olympic Games. Looking forward to Rio in 2016 & Tokyo in 2020!

Re: The Ashes: Sydney

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:53 am

That's it. I thought Eddie helped in drawing the game, but could be wrong.

Well done you Aussies.

At least England made them work for it.

Can't make England favourites in NZ.
2012-13 SL vs NZ combined fantasy guru

I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 54745
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire/New England.

Re: The Ashes: Sydney

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:00 am

Eddie averaged 60 in Tests, but oddly batted at 7-8 in the Bodyline series.

Born in the picturesque village of Oswaldthistle.

Stand remembers right, ENgland won in Brisbane after Paynter left hospital to see England to a first innings lead. He had tonsillitis. He averaged 61 in the series, and was then dropped.
2012-13 SL vs NZ combined fantasy guru

I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 54745
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire/New England.

Re: The Ashes: Sydney

Postby bigfluffylemon » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:12 am

A bit of guts in the end to bat out three sessions out of four and a half, and if Root hadn't had the lurgy, they might have made it to tea. But it's pretty much academic now.

Even for those of us (and it was most) who predicted a comfortable Australian win, I don't think anyone thought the gulf between the two sides would appear this large. England have pretty much all underperformed, and Australia have pretty much all overperformed.

After a year like this I do start to fear for the health of test cricket, as it is evermore shunted to the margins in favour of T20, meaning tours are curtailed and preparation games a joke. Then guess what, visting sides get destroyed. The degree of home advantage must be more over the last 5 years than any other time I can think of since the war - it's not just England - every side gets spanked away from home (just look at Australia's record over the rest of the year). India might stop the rot in England or South Africa, but if they do they will be the exception, and will truly have earned the title of best in the world.
User avatar
bigfluffylemon
 
Posts: 2463
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:40 am
Team(s) Supported: England. Australia.
Any team playing good cricket in the right spirit.

PreviousNext

Return to Live Cricket Matches

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests