First Test: New Zealand v England. 22-26 March.

[bigfluffylemon]

They've lasted just long enough to cruelly get hopes up, before they are no doubt dashed on the rocks of reality.

Stokes gets a 50 - he's lasted 150 balls so far. Good effort.

At least England are making New Zealand work for it rather than capitulating, which is something I suppose. But an innings defeat still seems to be the most likely outcome. Still 40 overs to go, which is a long time. And a night session, of course.

[meninblue]

Ben has given some hopes for a draw. Still a long way to go.

[sussexpob]

And that's Ben Stokes for you. Possibly gave a chance of a draw but gets out at the end of a session to a rank ball and brain fade.

Hard to knock him too much mind.....his innings is one positive to take away from a sinking ship of a test

[meninblue]

Ben gone. Now tough to draw.

[bigfluffylemon]

Urg. Overton goes. Just 20 overs left, two wickets to get. Tailenders at that. Some credit is due to England for making the Kiwis work hard for it, but it's going to be just close enough to have raised hope without making it.

But let's face it, it's still going to be an innings defeat, and if it hadn't been for rain would have been over by the first interval yesterday. Poor performance overall.

[sussexpob]

No credit due whatsoever in my book.

[meninblue]

Huge loss by innings and 42 runs.

287.1 overs in whole match. So technically a match played just over 3 days and half a session.

England will need batsmen who have average like Joe and Cook. Specialist batsmen averaging 30's and 20's even in their youth is not going to help at all.

James Vince - 22.70
Mark Stoneman - 27
Dawid Malan - 33.64
Jonny - 38.48

[Arthur Crabtree]

Well done to Stokes and Woakes for some resistance. But that's the only positive there is.

Great job done by NZ.

Curious that Cook has two big double tons recently but his general form is so poor. He averages 41 since the start of the SA tour in 2016 which is ok in the context of this side. But it is famine with a very rare feast.

Bairstow, Stokes (if available) and Moeen are in poor form now and so the bonus of the late middle order is no longer paying out. Root is trapped in a vortex of self destruction. None of the batting works.

There seems to be an air of aimlessness about the Test side. I think we need changes at the top of the management team.

[meninblue]

Huge loss by innings and 42 runs.

287.1 overs in whole match. So technically a match played just over 3 days and half a session.

England will need batsmen who have average like Joe and Cook. Specialist batsmen averaging 30's and 20's even in their youth is not going to help at all.

James Vince - 22.70
Mark Stoneman - 27
Dawid Malan - 33.64
Jonny - 38.48

Jonny's average is fine considering he keeps as well (acceptable if he is keeping well). But 23,27 and 34 from specialist batters should be not even on bench or backup players. Here they are in playing 11.

[meninblue]

New Bunch:

Joe Root - 53.28
Jonny Bairstow - 39.12
Dawid Malan - 33.64
Mark Stoneman - 27.07
James Vince - 22.70


Old Bunch:

KP - 47.28
Alaistair Cook - 46.35
Trott- 44.08
Bell - 42.69
Strauss - 40.91
Colly - 40.56
Prior - 40.18

So much difference in performance.

The averages of the old bunch were much higher for most of there career too

All of them finished off poorly in the last 2 or 3 series

you are forgetting Matt prior too and Collingwood

Our batting line up is as shadow of what it was

Updated averages of Colly and Prior

At times it's the trend , remove old, the new will be better. After changes it is found even old in bad form is better than new.

[Arthur Crabtree]

England's averages away from home from the start of the 2013 Ashes.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting

[Arthur Crabtree]

And this winter.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting

[andy]

Time for Livingstone and Leach to be given a chance, think Malan is worth perserving with

[backfootpunch]

New Bunch:

Joe Root - 53.28
Jonny Bairstow - 39.12
Dawid Malan - 33.64
Mark Stoneman - 27.07
James Vince - 22.70


Old Bunch:

KP - 47.28
Alaistair Cook - 46.35
Trott- 44.08
Bell - 42.69
Strauss - 40.91
Colly - 40.56
Prior - 40.18

So much difference in performance.

The averages of the old bunch were much higher for most of there career too

All of them finished off poorly in the last 2 or 3 series

you are forgetting Matt prior too and Collingwood

Our batting line up is as shadow of what it was

Updated averages of Colly and Prior

At times it's the trend , remove old, the new will be better. After changes it is found even old in bad form is better than new.

Think back to the relentless moaning about Ian Bell who averaged mid 40s for most of his career

And how keen the management and captain were to cast aside KP and make him the scapegoat for a ashes whitewash despite being our top run scorer iirc

[backfootpunch]

Time for Livingstone and Leach to be given a chance, think Malan is worth perserving with

I like the look of stoneman too, against two top class opening bowling attacks in starc/hazlewood and boult/Southee he has looked like he is an international standard player

He just needs to learn how to duck or sway out of the way of the short ball