First Test: New Zealand v England. 22-26 March.

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Re: First Test: New Zealand v England. 22-26 March.

Postby Durhamfootman » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:23 pm

sussexpob wrote:No credit due whatsoever in my book.

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Re: First Test: New Zealand v England. 22-26 March.

Postby Durhamfootman » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:24 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:
There seems to be an air of aimlessness about the Test side. I think we need changes at the top of the management team.

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Re: First Test: New Zealand v England. 22-26 March.

Postby sussexpob » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:15 pm

backfootpunch wrote: I like the look of stoneman too, against two top class opening bowling attacks in starc/hazlewood and boult/Southee he has looked like he is an international standard player . He just needs to learn how to duck or sway out of the way of the short ball


I am not so sure. Durham lads might disagree having seen more, but he struggles to get his feet moving at times. Seems that if you bowl wide and short to him, he can stay pretty compact and swing through the ball, but as soon as you bring the ball into the body and the stumps, he doesnt look comfortable. Weirdly for an English opener, the best I have seen him play is to spin, where his feet have a bit more time to get set. Not sure Id back him to play in good swinging conditions.

Seems he is indicative of a lot of modern cricketers when it comes to mentality. He sets himself to play long, but there is always an impatience there to hit boundaries or take the ball on. He really needs to rotate the strike and put pressure on the bowler. You always think if you keep it tight to him, you are either going to tie him down, or force him to be a bit more extravagant when he loses patience.

The short ball is the perfect example. He watches a few go by, then even when two fielders are back he occasionally goes after one.
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Re: First Test: New Zealand v England. 22-26 March.

Postby sussexpob » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:23 pm

andy wrote:Time for Livingstone and Leach to be given a chance, think Malan is worth perserving with


Malan looks ok. When he gets his feet set, those booming drives or pulls look impressive. Yet again though, there is an element that he likes to plant that front foot. Id back a bowler who can get it full and swinging into middle and leg to cause him lots of problems.

The innings at Perth for instance, I think Starc was inches away from setting him up for an lbw in that mode a couple of times. Think he scrapped bat on it to save him. Also he was pretty luck at Perth, which is really a score that makes his international career acceptable.

Best of a bad bunch. But I doubt he can average 40 in tests.
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Re: First Test: New Zealand v England. 22-26 March.

Postby sussexpob » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:30 pm

First thing for England is to get rid of Ali. Batting is ropey, bowling is turning non existent.
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Re: First Test: New Zealand v England. 22-26 March.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:38 pm

Nothing wrong with dropping someone who's struggling. It doesn't have to be the end for them.
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Re: First Test: New Zealand v England. 22-26 March.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:42 pm

Just as a memory jogger, these are also in the squad.

Foakes/Livingstone/Vince/Wood/Leach

I thought TRJ was in this squad. Maybe injured.
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Re: First Test: New Zealand v England. 22-26 March.

Postby bigfluffylemon » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:50 pm

There's only so many changes England can make ahead of Christchurch given the players available, but surely Livingstone, Leach and Wood have to be in contention for Christchurch. If Stokes can't bowl, however, it's hard to see how Livingstone would fit - he's not an opener, Root's undroppable, Bairstow's the keeper, so either Stokes or Malan makes way, and neither seems likely to get the boot. Malan's more at risk I guess. If Leach comes in for Moeen the batting is weakened (although not much, given Moeen's returns over winter), but England don't seem likely to go with a four man attack, so we could see Woakes batting at seven and then a very long tail of Wood, Broad, Anderson and Leach. I can't see the England management going for that.

TBH, I think everyone apart from Root and Anderson, and maybe Stokes is (or should be) vulnerable prior to the start of the English summer. I've been a big fan of Cook and Broad for a long time, but they've both been so short of their best for so long (with occasional flashes of brilliance from Cook) that it's hard not to think that they need some time away from test cricket, maybe for good.

If England fail to win in Christchurch, Bayliss' role as test coach is surely untenable.
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Re: First Test: New Zealand v England. 22-26 March.

Postby bigfluffylemon » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:53 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Just as a memory jogger, these are also in the squad.

Foakes/Livingstone/Vince/Wood/Leach

I thought TRJ was in this squad. Maybe injured.


Yep, still injured. He'll surely be in contention when fit - hopefully by summer.
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Re: First Test: New Zealand v England. 22-26 March.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:38 pm

Woakes surely should be dropped rather than bat at seven.

Away bowling is pretty grim. This is England since before the 2013 Ashes tour. Stokes has the only SR below 60.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

And this winter. No one is striking at anywhere near 60.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling
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Re: First Test: New Zealand v England. 22-26 March.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:15 am

Stoneman/Cook/Root/Stokes/Malan/Livingstone/Bairstow/Overton/Broad/Leach/Anderson.

Vince/Moeen/Foakes/Woakes/Wood
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Re: First Test: New Zealand v England. 22-26 March.

Postby bigfluffylemon » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:59 am

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Woakes surely should be dropped rather than bat at seven.

Away bowling is pretty grim. This is England since before the 2013 Ashes tour. Stokes has the only SR below 60.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

And this winter. No one is striking at anywhere near 60.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling


Yep. Woakes has been good in limited overs, but in tests he's been dining out on his 2016 home form for 18 months now. That and the fact he can bat a bit.

I don't see England going in with a four-man bowling attack. I think they should consider it, but the presence of so many all-rounders in the team has made them consider 5 bowlers as a necessity.

I'd consider Wood over Overton. Or even Broad.

Surprises me that Anderson's SR is so poor overseas. But his average is the right side of 30 and his econ is low. What I've been seeing for the last two years or so of overseas tours is that Anderson in particular bowls well and keeps it tight, but opposing batsmen don't take risks against him, knowing that England's back-up bowlers won't be able to keep up the pressure. They then score off the second string. And while Anderson's unplayable when the ball moves, when it doesn't all he has is accuracy, and if you don't go after him, he's not that penetrative.
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Re: First Test: New Zealand v England. 22-26 March.

Postby Alviro Patterson » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:38 am

Well you have just got to give it to New Zealand, they played far better cricket in all departments and wanted it more.

The England players are too pampered for my liking, Stokes should not have been drawn into Wagners antics just before he got out. It's the only explanation why Stokes decided to take on Wagner one over before dinner, no number 5 international bat in the world (in any format) would take on such a filthy short and wide ball in that scenario. I've seen Steven Patterson get peppered by Wagner with the short stuff in a Roses match before smashing him all over Leeds.

England might not have been worthy to save a match after scoring 58 in the 1st dig, but they had a chance to do it. I thought Root was unlucky to get out in the final over when he was wrapped round the fingers from the previous delivery, certainly looked and felt painful from first reaction where even Kane Williamson fielding close showed concern.

Bairstow's dismissal was vulgar, not even a proper shot and his body posture was all over the place. Moeen Ali actually looked good in his innings before getting out LBW. Woakes led a bit of a charmed life early on, but looked more reassuring past 20 and could not do much against an accurately pitched ball by Wagner.

Problem with England is some players will not learn from the shortcomings as half the players will be playing IPL in a week or so time, while others will be rested. Andrew Strauss should have the decency to at least make IPL players report to their counties by the start of May so they can get a few rounds of County Championship cricket in.

Don't think too much needs to change in the next test, probably Wood for Overton for an injection of pace in the bowling attack.
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Re: First Test: New Zealand v England. 22-26 March.

Postby Making_Splinters » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:02 am

The feedback from the press etc seems to be much the same after every England loss these days: Our bowling attack needs variation, Ali is not good enough as a spinner and our batsmen need to show some more application.
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Re: First Test: New Zealand v England. 22-26 March.

Postby Adi » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:40 am

Alviro Patterson wrote:Well you have just got to give it to New Zealand, they played far better cricket in all departments and wanted it more.

The England players are too pampered for my liking, Stokes should not have been drawn into Wagners antics just before he got out. It's the only explanation why Stokes decided to take on Wagner one over before dinner, no number 5 international bat in the world (in any format) would take on such a filthy short and wide ball in that scenario. I've seen Steven Patterson get peppered by Wagner with the short stuff in a Roses match before smashing him all over Leeds.

England might not have been worthy to save a match after scoring 58 in the 1st dig, but they had a chance to do it. I thought Root was unlucky to get out in the final over when he was wrapped round the fingers from the previous delivery, certainly looked and felt painful from first reaction where even Kane Williamson fielding close showed concern.

Bairstow's dismissal was vulgar, not even a proper shot and his body posture was all over the place. Moeen Ali actually looked good in his innings before getting out LBW. Woakes led a bit of a charmed life early on, but looked more reassuring past 20 and could not do much against an accurately pitched ball by Wagner.

Problem with England is some players will not learn from the shortcomings as half the players will be playing IPL in a week or so time, while others will be rested. Andrew Strauss should have the decency to at least make IPL players report to their counties by the start of May so they can get a few rounds of County Championship cricket in.

Don't think too much needs to change in the next test, probably Wood for Overton for an injection of pace in the bowling attack.


Is that because Footbal is now number 1 sport in your country ? that the Cricket loss and horrible batting averages of specialist batters are getting ignored.

I can't imagine what Indian cricketers with average of 23, 27 and 33 will have to go through if he is selected even in squad, lest the playing 11. :lol:
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