Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

Team of the series: based on 4 tests - where all of the top order have been poor! - has less batting than England's

Pujara
Kohli
Rahane/Root/Bairstow
Buttler
Stokes/Woakes
Curran
Ali
Pandya/Ashwin
Sharma/Broad
Anderson
Bumrah

...and here's me complaining on the thread about a lack of batting application!

We reap what we sow

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Captains and batters sometimes seem to use the DRS like a joker, as if it can be strategically enforced to give them a decision at a key time, utterly independent of whether a mistake was made by the umpire.

England can't afford to lose Root, so he refers his decision. They've got to get Kohli, so they use their referrals up against the Indian captain.

seems to me that every batsman given out lbw asks for a review, regardless. makes me wonder what the point is. I think each team should have unlimited reviews and the iCC accept that test matches should have a 50 over day

nobody in the ground will notice, because they're all ssiped by lunchtime

"can I go Rooooot, Roooot, Rooooot yet?"

TOTS.

Dhawan/Rahul/Pujara/Kohli/Rahane/Bairstow/Buttler/Moeen/Ishant/Bumrah/Anderson.

Rahul is in for his slip catching.

7 out of 11 for a team beaten 3-1?

Them's the facts.

Arguable Young Sam should be in there, but he can't get in as a bowler, and he bats in the tail, so I can't put him at five. Woakes did well, but I think my three seamers have been outstanding and he didn't bat in the middle order.

There's probably a more convincing worst XI to be had out of the series.

Arthur Crabtree wrote:There's probably a more convincing worst XI to be had out of the series.

Rahul would be in that as well.

Well, we won, but I'm not sure I've ever been so ambivalent about an England win. We should be over the moon for having defeated the number 1 side in the world, but frankly, England have been pretty rubbish for much of the series. This has to be the worst England batting line-up in a generation (as discussed earlier, you have to go back to the nadir of 99-01 to find a worse England side, I think).

Yet somehow, England keep finding ways to win at home, almost entirely though their bowling. The enduring quality of Broad and Anderson, Woakes and Moeen chipping in at crucial moments and the emergence of Curran, some generally helpful English conditions have all been factors, but a key reason has been the complete failure of India's batsmen to play the moving ball. (Kohli aside, and Pujara in the first innings here).

This is quite an indictment of India, their status as the number 1 side in the world, and frankly the status of modern test cricket in general. Yes, you can argue that India have been competitive, and two of their losses could have easily gone the other way. But in both cases they let England off the hook, whereas a more ruthless side would have destroyed them. The number 1 side in the world should not go down to the number 5 side 3-1 after 4 games, even when playing away. Home advantage in modern test cricket is just too strong, and it's going to turn people off as series results are just too predictable. That's despite this particular series actually being quite compelling. Paradoxical, I know. But if India can't beat such a bad England side, what is wrong with the game?

The answer has to be going back to the days of fewer but longer tours - plenty of prep time, time between test matches for the home team to go back to their counties and the away team to play some tour games, get used to the conditions and get players back into form.

India's status as number 1 is entirely based on invincible form at home. Pretty much the only teams they have beaten 'away' are Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, which is effectively home conditions for them anyway, and which are number 6 and 9 in the world respectively. They've lost their most recent encounters away in New Zealand, Australia, South Africa and now England. They travel to Australia in the southern hemisphere summer, and will take them on without their two best batsmen, but after this series and South Africa, does anyone think that the Indian batsmen will be able to counter Hazlewood, Starc, Cummins and Lyon? I don't.

Meanwhile, England have got to the end of another summer with a series win against a major side, and yet so many holes in their team and far more questions than answers over their XI. The problem is trying to shoe too many allrounders into the side and not having enough specialists, especially specialist bats, but it's hard to make a case to exclude any one individual. Moeen, Woakes, Curran, Buttler, Bairstow and Stokes have all made match-winning contributions over the summer, but six of them into the side just doesn't fit. So we end up with the current dog's breakfast, and the only solution is likely to be to find a specialist top 3 capable of scoring runs.

Finally

Dr Cricket wrote:Whereas at the moment every team looks at england and thinks they beatable at england.
no one thinks that england gonna be a challenge and it would be tough to just stay in the game.
no one fears england in england anymore.

Anyway I am happy to disagree on this.

I think I was right here - England are tough to beat at home.

Not sure it does tbh most people will still think england are beatable at home, imho you can argue India were close to wining 2 more test in this series and didn’t finish off the games.

Sam Curran a special player though he pretty much the difference in this series.
Wonder if he played in Trent bridge, england might have won that game instead of collapsing to 160 odd in first innings.

Got to say this series defeat doesn’t really hurt me as 2011 or 2014 though and that because India played their best and that all you can really ask for only did lords game really hurt and they rectified the mistakes from that game quickly.

ddb wrote:

Adi wrote:9 wickets for Mooenalitharan.

Glad that this series is getting over soon. Went as expected and there were no changes in overall script which was another overseas loss.

We've played ok

TBH I just treat adi as a troll now.
Jheez 90s must be an horrible decade for India if adi Just assumes every Indian game away from home is a loss.

Imho think India should take a lot of positives out of this series.
Got a good bowling attack for most conditions really, 2-3 very good spinners and 6-7 possible pace men so they should always be able to take 20 wickets irrespective of conditions.

Batting been ok, only really kl Rahul struggled but he been a gem at catching that it kind off given him extra points and runs.
Pandya been ok but he does need to be more consistent with bat and ball but in reality I am ok with him playing because he a good talent and you need to work with him.
Shami, bumrah and Ishant have been impressive with the ball.

For the 5th test I think I would give some of the newer players and squad members a game though maybe debut for shaw.

Beaten wi away from home as well.

Although India do have the unadvantage of all the stronger nations being nations outside their comfort zones, so it is harder for them to win away from home compared to say England or Australia who only have to beat Sri Lanka or Pakistan, wi and Bangladesh.
Easier for them to adjust to nz, aus and sa conditions and so they are more likely than beat them away from home.

Although it works out the same in the end since obviously India winning in sa or england or aus will be rated much more higher then England or aus winning in Sri Lanka or Bangladesh or uae.
Got to say been pleased with India effort so far in the 7 away test matches only been one test match that been a write off and you can argue they loss 4-5 of them because of the toss and batting last they lost 3-4 gettable chasses in sa and England although taking nothing away from England and sa because in these occasions India let the target get away from them when bowling.
Although it should be noted both wins came when batting first so it would have helped India win the games if they did win the toss.
Been a good series to watch though same with the sa series in jan.

Moeen has a better bowling SR than Warne in England!

Not sure what Rashid is doing there. No runs, no wickets, can't field, no point. Bloody Ed Smith.

one thing that is apprent in this series and in SA is that india lack of lower order batting in overseas conditions is a problem only bhuvi can really bat out of the pace bowlers which means india a big tail and to get 5 bowlers ashwin needs to bat at 6 or 7 with no pandya which again means no batting at 9-10-11.

think from future prospects only mavi can bat so not really a possible fix in the future apart from pandya improving in both aspect of his game.

Think Shanky sum up this series well.

"Eng leading 3-1 with 3 fifties from their top 6 after 4 Tests vs a team with an ATG producing one of the greatest series by a visiting bat in Test history, a #3 scoring a ton and a fifty and a #5 scoring two fifties and the best opener of the series. Not sure how this happened!

Not really sure how india losing the series 3-1 when you considering india top 6 is mostly better than england top 6 and Ishant, Shami and Bumrah have been good with the ball and Ashwin is a good spinner although if he was injured he could easily be replaced by jadeja as well.


got to give credit to Sam curran and england lower order but mostly Sam curran he pretty much single handledly won this Test series for england and he only 3 test old.
can see him being a Kallis type all rounder for england can see him being more of a batsman and a better averaging batsman than Stokes and probably bowl less in the future and be a 5th or 6th bowler if Stokes still plays.
Not really sure how it will work with Stokes and curran in the team, do they both bat in the top 7 and england going with 6-7 bowlers or do they just get picked in the bowling slots and bat all the way down to 9-10 or even 11.
although think in the future curran not good enough to get in the team as a bowler so he probably becomes a player in the top 6 although, Stokes is good enough now to be a bowler picked for the bowling slots but is that the best role for him.
Becomes insane if Woakes gets in the team and Ali becomes number 1 spinners.

bigfluffylemon wrote:Well, we won, but I'm not sure I've ever been so ambivalent about an England win. We should be over the moon for having defeated the number 1 side in the world, but frankly, England have been pretty rubbish for much of the series. This has to be the worst England batting line-up in a generation (as discussed earlier, you have to go back to the nadir of 99-01 to find a worse England side, I think)

I've shown more enthusiasm for the 2011 and even 2014 series against India, but my general enthusiasm for England cricket during the summer is down. A combination of the T20 Blast being played in peak summer and how the ECB are currently running English cricket.

This is quite an indictment of India, their status as the number 1 side in the world, and frankly the status of modern test cricket in general. Yes, you can argue that India have been competitive, and two of their losses could have easily gone the other way. But in both cases they let England off the hook, whereas a more ruthless side would have destroyed them. The number 1 side in the world should not go down to the number 5 side 3-1 after 4 games, even when playing away. Home advantage in modern test cricket is just too strong, and it's going to turn people off as series results are just too predictable. That's despite this particular series actually being quite compelling. Paradoxical, I know. But if India can't beat such a bad England side, what is wrong with the game?

The answer has to be going back to the days of fewer but longer tours - plenty of prep time, time between test matches for the home team to go back to their counties and the away team to play some tour games, get used to the conditions and get players back into form.

I can't see the situation improving. Next year there is an Ashes series straight after the 2019 World Cup, which is sure to impact the quality of test cricket for multi-format players involved in both campaigns. It is one of the reasons why I am bothering getting a ticket for Ashes because the quality of cricket won't justify the price tag.

Then in 2020, the IPL has it's own place in the Future Tours Programme so central contracted England players are more likely to get an IPL contract and not play any early season red ball cricket to get match sharp for tests. Then The Hundred competition will be played for most of July and August, meaning no County Championship for domestic players to stake a claim for a late test spot because they are either playing the new competition or a diluted 50 over cup.