5th Test: England vs India - The Kia Oval

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Re: 5th Test: England vs India - The Kia Oval

Postby bigfluffylemon » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:55 pm

Kinda feel as though we should be better than we are. There are some good players there. They just aren't consistent.

Some do flatter to deceive though. The press keep fawning over Bairstow calling him an excellent batsman, but he's had one year in test cricket when he's averaged over 35. Suggests he's mediocre but had one purple patch.
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Re: 5th Test: England vs India - The Kia Oval

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:31 pm

Hanuma Vihari who is touted to debut tomorrow has a fca of 60!
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Re: 5th Test: England vs India - The Kia Oval

Postby ddb » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:34 pm

Really hope we win this.

Play Jadeja for Ash.

Drop Pandya and play the extra batsmen.

Hopefully we take it seriously. India are back in 3 years too so lots of this side will still be around
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Re: 5th Test: England vs India - The Kia Oval

Postby backfootpunch » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:28 pm

bigfluffylemon wrote:Kinda feel as though we should be better than we are. There are some good players there. They just aren't consistent.

Some do flatter to deceive though. The press keep fawning over Bairstow calling him an excellent batsman, but he's had one year in test cricket when he's averaged over 35. Suggests he's mediocre but had one purple patch.

Bairstows technique has fallen to pieces because he's changed his game for white ball cricket

Before the changes he had the technique to bat 4 or 5 in test matches, now he has started standing so far to the leg side showing all his stumps he's a number 7 or 6 at best
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Re: 5th Test: England vs India - The Kia Oval

Postby bigfluffylemon » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:53 am

backfootpunch wrote:
bigfluffylemon wrote:Kinda feel as though we should be better than we are. There are some good players there. They just aren't consistent.

Some do flatter to deceive though. The press keep fawning over Bairstow calling him an excellent batsman, but he's had one year in test cricket when he's averaged over 35. Suggests he's mediocre but had one purple patch.

Bairstows technique has fallen to pieces because he's changed his game for white ball cricket

Before the changes he had the technique to bat 4 or 5 in test matches, now he has started standing so far to the leg side showing all his stumps he's a number 7 or 6 at best


Yes, I think you're right. And he's averaging over 50 in ODI cricket. Is it worth it? Maybe it will be if England win the World cup. Maybe not.

It might not matter so much if he could bat a 6 or 7, but England have about 6 batsmen for positions 6-7, and none for higher up. It also doesn't help that number 6 is constantly coming in with less than 100 on the board, rather than 200+ with tired bowlers.
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Re: 5th Test: England vs India - The Kia Oval

Postby Dr Cricket » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:32 am

Another toss loss for kohli 5 in a row for him.

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Re: 5th Test: England vs India - The Kia Oval

Postby alfie » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:39 am

sussexpob wrote:
alfie wrote:
Arthur Crabtree wrote:Pick your strongest team and don't scatter around experimental caps. I think England would profit more by winning 4-1 than having a look at a couple of debutants in a dead rubber. If A&B were going to be rested for their sake, it doesn't make much sense to do it in the final Test unless they are carrying an injury. They won't be going out for the one dayers in SL.


Never been keen on dishing out caps too freely...unlike ODIs , each Test is an event in itself and should be treated with respect.

Yes I know I'm a dinosaur :)


Cook just said the tank was empty and that he had nothing left to give, would it be respectful to the game to play a man who admits that? Is it respectful to pick guys who rather play IPL than county cricket in preparation (many)? Or to pick spinners that refuse to play full stop? Or pick lads that go out in middle of series and beat up members of the public? Or players that headbutt the opposition?

1. Retiring
2. Not made a 50 in 9 tests. Average is a failure above going past the 20 mark in the wrong way. Only test match score, he was badly dropped on 0.
3. Just came back from being dropped. Averaged mid 20s in last two years with no 100 since winter 16..... has an abysmal record overseas. His record in the top three slots is to average .... 16, 12 and 7. Great call to move him up the order.
4. No 100 in about 15-16 tests by memory. 100s turned to 50s, 50s now turning to failures. Averages just over 30 for the year
5. Last 16 tests, he averages high 20s, a sustained period of bad form. Add into that hes into his 7th calendar year as a test cricketer, and only averaged over 35 one year, really he had one purple match in a lot of very poor performances.
6. Has recent high profile disciplinary issues, not yet resolved with the board. Average not much over 25 for the year.
7. Has runs, but he's been dropped or has been very lucky in every single score. When the luck goes, he's in trouble.
8. A medium pacer who relies almost exclusively on his ability to swing from the hand. The perfect overcast, damp England option.... wonder how much of that swing he will get in Sri Lanka. He will need it, the 76mph bowling isnt going to trouble test batters.
9. Captain doesnt even want to give him the ball. Doesnt want to play to improve. Not really shown hes a match winning test player at all.
10/11..... both pretty old, both have had big workloads over the years. Either could break down, or find they suddenly run out of gas and decline. Broad has not exactly been excellent in Asia. He averages 63 a wicket in Sri Lanka, 54 in India and 40 in BD..... Anderson manages 40 in SRL and 35 in India, never played in BD.


I dont think its really throwing caps at people randomly, if/when we replace people on this form. Nothing in the above suggests we will do well in SL. Nothing at all. We essentially could drop about 7 players from this side and not probably notice much difference.


:D

You do like to look on the bright side , don't you...

And seriously : if you really think there are seven fit available replacements ready to walk into the team without weakening it , I want some of what you're smoking...
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Re: 5th Test: England vs India - The Kia Oval

Postby bigfluffylemon » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:29 am

I dunno, it's hard to imagine replacements doing much worse than most of them.

Steady start.
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Re: 5th Test: England vs India - The Kia Oval

Postby bigfluffylemon » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:42 pm

Gonna jinx it here, but highest opening partnership of the series. Not that that is particularly difficult.
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Re: 5th Test: England vs India - The Kia Oval

Postby sussexpob » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:44 pm

alfie wrote: You do like to look on the bright side , don't you... And seriously : if you really think there are seven fit available replacements ready to walk into the team without weakening it , I want some of what you're smoking...


I said "not notice much difference"...... the fact is, players averaging exclusively between 18-30 over a whole summer are easy to replace. 18 is a catastrophic failure. 30 is way below par. Id expect even very poor substandard batters to make 25 in tests, given a half decent FC record. Under 20 is the realm of worst caps ever. Lyth was pounded, called one of the worst picks in years... average above 20.

1. Hales performed better than Jennings. Lyth is very similar in performance, in fact his career record is better than all but Jennings debut test.

2. Robson's plus 30 average would be a significant improvement on Cooks season average of 18

3. Gary Ballance averages more than all but Root, out of players available for the next series.

4. Ian Bell is a far better middle order player than any we have currently

5. Woakes has a better combined average then Moeen Ali, assuming one spinner in the majority of English conditions is enough. He also averages 44 for the season with the bat, which is more than any of our top 6 can brag.

6. Liam Dawson has the same wicket average as Rashid in tests, and a better batting average.

7. Toby Roland Jones has a better test wicket average than any player currently in contention for the tam

8. James Vince's career average is about the same as Ben Stokes batting average this year.Its better than two other bats in the team.

9. Mark Stoneman has a better record than the player who replaced him.

10. Dominic Bess has a better wicket average than Rashid, and scored two 50s in as many games.

None of these are inspiring choices maybe, but the current form in the team is also very poor . It doesnt take much to improve it.
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Re: 5th Test: England vs India - The Kia Oval

Postby sussexpob » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:45 pm

Jennings proving once again he's useless. Was lucky to survive the over before, then that. Get him out, hes rubbish.
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Re: 5th Test: England vs India - The Kia Oval

Postby sussexpob » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:50 pm

Even someone like Ravi bloody Bopara would probably be an improvement over many people we have capped in recent years. Can you imagine a player who could average 32 now? It would guarantee him at least 5 years in the team.
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Re: 5th Test: England vs India - The Kia Oval

Postby yuppie » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:57 pm

Got to feel sorry for Ali here as once again he is being bought in as a stop gap player. Dropped at the start of the summer he now finds himself batting at one and being the number 1 spinner. How can you judge a players worth to a team if they are not given a set role?
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Re: 5th Test: England vs India - The Kia Oval

Postby sussexpob » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:03 pm

yuppie wrote:Got to feel sorry for Ali here as once again he is being bought in as a stop gap player. Dropped at the start of the summer he now finds himself batting at one and being the number 1 spinner. How can you judge a players worth to a team if they are not given a set role?


Being outclassed here as well. Bumrah just served him up an edge scrapper. I like Moeen, and totally agree. He's judged on spin one minute, then asked why he doesnt knock up 100s batting at 8.

He is a 3 though. He should be able to bat at the top, its where he made his mark.
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Re: 5th Test: England vs India - The Kia Oval

Postby budgetmeansbudget » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:04 pm

sussexpob wrote:Jennings proving once again he's useless. Was lucky to survive the over before, then that. Get him out, hes rubbish.

Pressure off as series won, Cook retiring so his place is probably secure, can he deliver?

No he can't, because he simply is not up to test standard. A decent county player and no more.
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