Eng in SL, LO series, Oct 10-27

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Re: Eng in SL, LO series, Oct 10-27

Postby bigfluffylemon » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:00 am

Stats highlight - Bairstow goes past 1000 ODI runs for the calendar year. What a year he's had.

Trott's record of 1300 is probably safe with three ODIs to go, but he could well take the number 2 spot.
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Re: Eng in SL, LO series, Oct 10-27

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:30 am

Has equalled the most hundred in a year too.

Root is only 125 runs behind Bairstow this year.
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Re: Eng in SL, LO series, Oct 10-27

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:33 am

Only Stokes of the top six isn't on the first page of the most runs in a year for England, and he missed games.

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Re: Eng in SL, LO series, Oct 10-27

Postby sussexpob » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:05 am

Jonathan Trott's record should be scrubbed out from the books, because I am not sure you can count players who were purposefully dropped by the opposition, just to keep their pedestrian batting in the innings till the end. SR just scrapping 80, in 2011.... just pathetic.

Its almost unfathomable in the last 10 years, when you calculate how many England top order caps went to Cook/Trott/Bell and Strauss. Even Michael frigging Vaughan nearly played 100 ODIs I think :facepalm
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Re: Eng in SL, LO series, Oct 10-27

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:40 am

Alternatively IJLT displayed heroic tenacity in the face of his team mates' incompetence. Runs in 2011 for England.

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Re: Eng in SL, LO series, Oct 10-27

Postby sussexpob » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:51 am

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Alternatively IJLT displayed heroic tenacity in the face of his team mates' incompetence. Runs in 2011 for England


But batting in the top slots can have an effect on those below or alongside. If your partner has a long established form of batting within himself, or batting out overs at relative slow speeds, and your chasing 300, it puts amazing pressure on the partner to provide the pace of the attack. How many pinch hitting openers or top order players were sent in by England to slog everything, expected to make up the pace alongside someone like Cook, Bell and Trott? Lots. Someone like Luke Wright was expected to hit the ground running, but even in T20 he needs an over or two at his best to see out a few, then the acceleration is breath-taking.... but do that for England, youd be 10-0 after 6 overs, chasing 300.

Take a bit of maths. If Bell, Cook and Trott were to play their average ODI, youd bat out 28-29 overs for 126 runs. If everyone else maintained perfect 100SR's, at the very top of the then level of striking, youd make 250 in an innings, which would be under par in most contests. I think a series not long after the 2011 World cup (maybe late 2012?) occured in India v Australia, where in 7 ODIs there was one score of 298, and one score of 250, then everything else went over 300, with a few 350s knocked off. Thats what England were competing with at this present stage of ODI development.

With Bell, Trott and Cook in the team, on average you would need the rest of the batters to Strike at 8.3 an over to reach 300, or a SR of near 140. Hand picking the best strikers in the history of the game (Maxwell, Afridi, Buttler, Sehwag and Perera), you would only manage an average of 114SR, or a 143 extra runs, or a total of 269. It might be competitive in some situations, but not consistently.

7 international teams on average scored high run rates than the above scenario in 2011.... its unsurprising we only won 3 out of 7 matches at the World Cup, including a loss to Ireland, Bangladesh, and a near loss to the Netherlands.
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Re: Eng in SL, LO series, Oct 10-27

Postby Durhamfootman » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:22 pm

I remember Boycott talking about the 1979 WC final and how disappointed he was that England lost it, despite him and Mike Brearley putting on 129 for the first wicket. Then I heard Botham talking about the same match and he described how Boycott and Brearley used up about two thirds of the overs getting to 129, leaving the rest of the team so far behind the asking rate that they had to throw their wickets away in a futile attempt at getting near it.

It's a fine line between being the rock that holds an innings together and the plodder who uses up so many balls keeping his wicket intact that he forces a succession of batting partners to take huge risks on the rare occasions that they get the strike. As far as IJLT is concerned, I think he was probably on the right side of the line, but I can fully understand the view that he may have been on the wrong side of it

MPV and Bell probably came closest to Boycott and Brearley in their 2007 WC match against South Africa. Bell fell in the 8th over with the score on 9, whereas SA lost their first wicket in the 10th over with the score on 85. Neither should have been anywhere near the ODI squad, but the official tactic at the time was keep wickets in hand and have a dart at the end, so if you use up the 10 over PP scoring 9 runs.... that's fine. The other view was that your best players were your best players irrespective of the format of the game being played

thank goodness we've moved on from those particular pieces of nonsense
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Re: Eng in SL, LO series, Oct 10-27

Postby bigfluffylemon » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:51 pm

I think Trott is hugely unfairly bagged out for his strike rate. In the context of when he was playing the game, it really wasn't that bad, and I think in the ODI game at the time, a strike rate of 80 was only ever so slightly below the norm.

We forget just how much batting strike rates in ODIs have moved on in this decade. Prior to 2011, the average strike rate across all games was around 5 an over or less. From 2012 on, it's been steadily climbing. That means that until about 2011, 250 was (on average) a competitive score. And to get 250, your average batsman needs a strike rate of 83. Take into account that ODI innings are not paced evenly, and strike rates tend to accelerate in the last 10, especially with wickets in hand, and there was definitely a role for an anchor player who could reliably get you 50 in 65 balls for the rest of the team to build an innings around, and ensure that the team would have wickets in hand for the final push.
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I could name you 20 players easily who are considered very good ODI players, who have a strike rate about the same or worse than Trott. The issue is twofold, I think. Firstly, it wasn't so much Trott himself, if was the mindset that included Trott, Bell, Cook, Vaughan etc. in the team. There is room for one reliable anchor player. You don't need three. The second is that he was playing that kind of innings as ODI cricket was evolving and leaving England behind. Prior to Trott's career, only 3 England players had ever had a better career strike rate than Trott did in 2011 (qualifier - 1000 runs scored) - KP, Flintoff and Tresco. And none of them had a strike rate higher than 90. In four years since the last world cup, England now have 6 of their top 7 with a strike rate of near or over 100, and there's been hand-wringing about Joe Root with a strike rate of 90 and an average of over 50, and whether he's 'holding back' the side. The game has changed.

I took a look at Trott's top 10 innings for England. England won about half of them and lost the others. I think there's maybe two that you could make a legitimate case that if Trott had got on with it a bit more, England could have won. But in most cases where England lost, they were thumped, and Trott was the only man standing amid the rest of the batting order failing around him. Maybe there's a case that the later batters fell because they were trying to get on with it and he'd left them too much to do. But I think that's a pretty long bow to draw. In most cases, the entire England batting line up in 2011 simply didn't have the capability of scoring the runs they needed to win the game. Singling their highest averaging player, Trott, out for his strike rate as a reason is scapegoating, IMO.
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Re: Eng in SL, LO series, Oct 10-27

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:44 pm

So Denly has replaced the injured Dawson in the squad but won't be considered for the game tomorrow. A pace bowler will have to come in. Cricinfo suggests one of the Currans.

Kusal is injured, to be replaced by Sadeera Samarawickrama, says cricinfo.
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Re: Eng in SL, LO series, Oct 10-27

Postby andy » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:20 pm

Glad Denly has been called up, give him extra time to acclamatise etc....doubt will be much of a game anyway....ridiclous to have a tour in monsoon season...
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Re: Eng in SL, LO series, Oct 10-27

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:47 am

This series isn't getting started. Planning games during the monsoon might get series off the ftp, but it's a bit futile, and wasteful, and maybe even cynical?
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Re: Eng in SL, LO series, Oct 10-27

Postby sussexpob » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:50 am

Judging on the online commentary, the covers are coming off, the game stays at 50 overs, and the toss is about to happen, so we might get the game underway on time
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Re: Eng in SL, LO series, Oct 10-27

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:21 am

Raining heavily now.
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Re: Eng in SL, LO series, Oct 10-27

Postby sussexpob » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:42 am

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Raining heavily now.


Well that destroyed my hope haha
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Re: Eng in SL, LO series, Oct 10-27

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:34 pm

Presume if Denly is playing in the next game he'll be batting down at nine.
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