India tour of Australia, Nov 21 - Jan 18

[meninblue]

Remember Ramesh for being in the side that beat the Aussies at home. Made some handy contributions I think.

He scored two tons as well. There are lot of handy contributions but the big knocks were missing in domestic as well as international levels. Footwork too was issue as he hardly had any movement. Something like we call French cricket in India where one is supposed to score runs without moving legs and played for short time as fun. If any leg is moved batsman is given out.

[bigfluffylemon]

I think people are being a bit harsh on the Australian bowlers. Before Melbourne Indias highest score in 4 innings was 307 and so far they have the 2 lowest scores in the series.

Cricinfo posted an article with Stats suggesting that Starc averages 43 since the ball tampering affair, Hazlewood 37-38 (can remember the exact one), Siddle went for 56 a wicket in Pakistan, Chad Sayers averaged took 2/150 odd in his only game, and Pat Cummins save for his Melbourne 2nd innings heroics has only taken apparently 7 other wickets in 6 innings (Average overall 28). The top three are all comfortably above their normal career rates, the new ball partnership my some distance. This despite more helpful bowling conditions than normal, in a year where all pace attacks around the world are flattening batsman with regularity.

The Indian line up in England made 350 once in 5 tests, and that was at a point were England went to declaration bowling as India had a lead of 500 plus. They failed to make 200 in 5 innings. They were blown away and looked incapable.

Here, they have made 300, 448 declared and 660 declared in 3 of the 4 first innings of the series. When they didnt make a decent start, I think it was Lyon who did the damage.

We can agree disagree, but I think the bowlers have not done well enough this series to avoid criticism. The reasons why are there simply for debate, there is no obvious proof that this is linked to the condition of the ball in previous years, but should this trend continue for another 12 months, then I think history will make its own mind up on it.

I certainly have my suspicions. Starc particularly looks really lame this series. And apparently he is bowling the quickest average pace in these matches hes ever been clocked at, so its not a question of fitness or effort. Maybe too much effort?

I think you're right.

Some stats:
Cummins
Career average/SR 25/51
Average/SR in Oz 25/55
Average/SR this summer 28/62

Starc
Career average/SR 29/51
Average/SR in Oz 29/51
Average/SR this summer 37/70

Hazlewood
Career average/SR 27/59
Average/SR in Oz 26/58
Average/SR this summer 31/70

Lyon
Career average/SR 32/63
Average/SR in Oz 33/67
Average/SR this summer 31/71

Really only Lyon is keeping his end up. All the quicks are bowling 10-20% below their career standards. At the same time. This despite this being a bowler-friendly series for at least the first three tests. Ok, yesterday's mauling didn't help those figures (except Lyon, who somehow bagged 3 wickets despite being ineffectual, mainly by dint of bowling practically the entire day and getting a couple of tired slogs), but they were all worse than their career average before this test began.

The batting has certainly been the biggest contributor to Australia's woes, and you can argue that makes it harder for the bowlers as they are coming out to bowl for the second time without adequate rest, but it's been the first innings where they've really struggled. In four first innings between them, the quicks have taken 21 wickets, averages 38-50 and SRs all of over 80:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

That's dire.

[sussexpob]

Meninblue,

The list of top run scorers in the Ranji all have career spans that overlap the 2000 test we were talking about. How many of these run machines got a chance in the test arena? Three. And none of them made more than 3 games (excluding Jaffer, but he only played 1 year of FC cricket before getting a test pick, because he was touted a long time as a young prodigy). Ajay Sharma had the 3rd best FC average ever recorded in the history of the game, and he played one test vs the Windies in 1988 somewhere near their bowling peak, made 50 in two innings, and never played another international. Tendulkar and Laxman both average over 80 in the Ranji, and have scored multiple 1000s of runs. The fact is, the Indian selectors have never really used Ranji runs to gauge anything. People who score heavily can do so for whole careers, it doesnt guarantee anything.

Hasnt Ravi Jadeja scored 3 triple centuries in the Ranji? He's a test match 8. I say again, three triple centuries. All quite closely following on from each other if memory serves. It would appear to me that pitch quality and attack quality vary hugely. As a result, the stats produced can be ignored, and history largely proves they have totally been ignored. So many players even now seem to come up with outrageous batting averages, but they arent anywhere to be seen. Jadeja's efforts were almost laughed at. They were against a load of nobodys on pancakes. It seems common.

Ramesh himself I think stood out in the A team, and got his chance there. So when placed in the same conditions as others of the same worthiness, he stood out. If his FC average was half what some people managed in the FC game, then its probably to do with the fact the pitch in Chennai at the time wasnt a road.

And he played a long while. Its entirely possible that, as he was dumped and torn apart as a player, he lost motivation and that average dipped downwards. That happens to many cast offs from cricket. Id be interested to see in 2000 or 2001 what his FC average was.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Wicket for Kuldeep and Labuschagne in at three. Feels like a crucial point of the game.

Looks like India got the balance of their attack right.

[bigfluffylemon]

Australia digging in well. There's a long way to go until safety for them, of course, but it's a good start. Looks like a pancake just as much as it did in the India innings - bore draw looks most likely.

Not that India will mind. I can't see them enforcing the follow-on even if it becomes available, given their advantage in the series. They will look to make it impossible for them to lose the game before they push for the win.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Four down now though. Looking like 3-1.

[meninblue]

4 wickets with not many runs on the scorecard.

[meninblue]

Head caught and bowled Kuldeep. 198/5.

[meninblue]

Kuldeep bowls Tim Paine for 5.

Two spinners strategy has worked. One of the things selectors have done well this series. Australia 198/6.

[alfie]

Australia digging in well. There's a long way to go until safety for them, of course, but it's a good start. Looks like a pancake just as much as it did in the India innings - bore draw looks most likely.

Not that India will mind. I can't see them enforcing the follow-on even if it becomes available, given their advantage in the series. They will look to make it impossible for them to lose the game before they push for the win.

I was almost ready to agree with this at 120/1... But the clatter of wickets after lunch - nothing to do with the pitch , just basic loss of concentration under scoreboard pressure - has undermined the theory.
Paine going straight after tea pretty much makes it certain we will see India batting again late this evening : going to need a lot of rain to save this one.
I can't see a follow on for health and safety reasons (Kohli won't want his pace men carried off in a box) but they'll have plenty of time to finish the job Sunday/Monday.

Handscomb still there on 22 : will want a big one to ensure a place against Sri Lanka. Dare one suggest England might be hoping he does just that and ends up on the plane next year ?

[alfie]

Light dictates no new ball tonight...spinners to continue unless Kohli gets bored and settles for an early night...

Cummins once again showing value with the bat

Looks very gloomy out there.

[meninblue]

Meninblue,

The list of top run scorers in the Ranji all have career spans that overlap the 2000 test we were talking about. How many of these run machines got a chance in the test arena? Three. And none of them made more than 3 games (excluding Jaffer, but he only played 1 year of FC cricket before getting a test pick, because he was touted a long time as a young prodigy). Ajay Sharma had the 3rd best FC average ever recorded in the history of the game, and he played one test vs the Windies in 1988 somewhere near their bowling peak, made 50 in two innings, and never played another international. Tendulkar and Laxman both average over 80 in the Ranji, and have scored multiple 1000s of runs. The fact is, the Indian selectors have never really used Ranji runs to gauge anything. People who score heavily can do so for whole careers, it doesnt guarantee anything.

Hasnt Ravi Jadeja scored 3 triple centuries in the Ranji? He's a test match 8. I say again, three triple centuries. All quite closely following on from each other if memory serves. It would appear to me that pitch quality and attack quality vary hugely. As a result, the stats produced can be ignored, and history largely proves they have totally been ignored. So many players even now seem to come up with outrageous batting averages, but they arent anywhere to be seen. Jadeja's efforts were almost laughed at. They were against a load of nobodys on pancakes. It seems common.

Ramesh himself I think stood out in the A team, and got his chance there. So when placed in the same conditions as others of the same worthiness, he stood out. If his FC average was half what some people managed in the FC game, then its probably to do with the fact the pitch in Chennai at the time wasnt a road.

And he played a long while. Its entirely possible that, as he was dumped and torn apart as a player, he lost motivation and that average dipped downwards. That happens to many cast offs from cricket. Id be interested to see in 2000 or 2001 what his FC average was.

Sussex, Ranji is the only stepping stone tournament that is actually used to select players for India A and Test. Then based on Ranji the selectors in India pick India A squad. Ranji even today is significant for the fate of a cricketers progress to test levels and all the players being selected are part of Ranji setup. I disagree on this. Even Shubman Gill , Shreyas Iyer , Karun Nair, Easwaran & R Samarth (Both Openers) are still playing Ranji in spite of already progressing to India A team. Point i am trying to make is Ranji still matters even for already selected players or future talent.



What happened in Ramesh case was: (1) Sidhu retired creating an openers spot (2) The selectors chose S Ramesh on one and a half season and picked him rather than considering his overal FC record. (3) Although he was not a domestic bully or more technically correct like many others were, he got the advantage of being the opener in form.

Otherwise the test lineup in 1996 had players like Sachin, Rahul, Azhar and the only spot vacant was opening which was actually solved by Sehwag in around 2000 after he was promoted from middle order to opener. Sehwag batted in middle order for Delhi. Made test debut as middle order player, thereafter few series he was promoted as MSO on our tour to England.

Devang Gandhi too got this benefit even though his FC average is less. Only Vikram Rathour the opener had FC average of 49 and he was wonderful at Ranji level but did not live upto test level.


Ramesh had a very bad season in 1997 averaging 29. Less said about this average in Ranji the better.

Ramesh was the best average wise (111) in 1998 Ranji season. That was great.

Ramesh played 6 matches in 1998 - 99 Ranji trophy while scoring 364 runs @ average of 52. Bhatt, Devang Gandhi, Sriram, Rajeev Nayyar, Vijay Baharadwaj and Jacob Martin not only outscored him by runs but they also outscored Ramesh by Average. There are few more names who did better than him but they were not Ranji bullies. His 1998 Ranji season played a major part in him getting the test cap. In the opening only category one cannot deny he was the best in the one and half year.

As for the wickets on which he batted - FC Batting averages of some TamilNadu batsmen during those times. Also, Ranji teams do not play all matches at home only.

S Sriram - 52
W Raman - 45
Hemang Badani - 45
S Sharath - 44
S Ramesh - 43
Vasant Kumar - 32


Jadeja is altogether different case. We have seen that he averages only 31,20 even though he averaged 46 in FC.

[meninblue]

5 wickets to Kuldeep and Jaddu. Australia still need 386 to draw level. Looks like we will get a very good lead.

[meninblue]

Bad light continues and it's stumps. Very happy with how things have gone in this test so far. Got the team that i wanted, toss win as well, then massive first innings score and now bowlers ensuring the lead is there to be taken. The concern is whether there will be rain or not on Day 4 and Day 5. If we bowl them out in first session tomorrow morning or slightly after lunch and get a lead of 250, bat two session with Rishabh being promoted ahead of Ajinkya to attempt quick runs and let Aussies chase 450 - 500 on Day 5 it will be wonderful.

[meninblue]

Not the entire team that I wanted because Rahul played. More like I got the two spinners that I wished for. But yes I liked they played two specialist spinners. I would have persisted with Vihari for just one test as opener and then moved him to middle order so that Hardik Pandya could have played as well.