India tour of Australia, Nov 21 - Jan 18

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Re: India tour of Australia, Nov 21 - Jan 18

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:10 am

Congratulations to India for a landmark win.

Australia somewhere near the bottom of the performance graph. Only Lyon and Cummins looking like must-picks. Numbers 1-7 could easily be dropped.

Excellent input bfl.
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Re: India tour of Australia, Nov 21 - Jan 18

Postby GarlicJam » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:01 pm

Yes, a dominant series win by India. They have every right to be pleased with themselves - as have their fans. Good for you, all India fans here. Well captained by Kohli - he should be a well satisfied man tonight - and a fantastic tour for Pujara. I assume he was given man of the series?

But the most impressive thing about India, of course, is their pace attack. Surprisingly good, well balanced, and fast! Bumrah certainly has improved since the last I saw him.



The loss of Smith and Warner to the side only exacerbated what has been a problem a long time in the making. Australia are just not producing anywhere near the class of quality batsmen that they have done over the years, at least not in sufficient quantities. How long has it been since we had the likes of Stuart Law, Martin Love, or even Mike Hussey, playing season after season in the Sheffield Shield, and then County, scoring good runs innings after innings, deserving to be test batsmen, but there is just not the place for them.

Nowadays, we have batsmen that really shouldn't be long term test players, getting and keeping spots through lack of competition. I can't work out how to work this in Statsguru, but I would be willing to bet the average scores by all batsmen in the Sheffield Shield has declined over the past. I'd venture that there is a few differing reasons for this, but they will be eitehr long-term fixes, or will not be fixed due to commercial reasons. Oh Joy.

Of course I would prefer to see my team winning, but I can't be too upset by it. The situation is a problem of our own making - not just the ball tampering, either. What has annoyed me the past couple of days, though, is all of the retired-players-switched-to-media-pundits launching into the team - especially those having a go at the courage and/or heart of the team. It is mainly a probably of ability/skill - if they are not good enough to beat (the best team in the world) India, they aren't good enough. humiliating them is not going to make them better
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Re: India tour of Australia, Nov 21 - Jan 18

Postby yuppie » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:01 pm

Well thank god thats over.

Well deserved win by India, and the loss Australian cricket deserved.

Well i really can not see a bright future for Australian cricket in the coming 5 years.

Good analysis BFL on Australia's performance. This really is the worse top 7 in my time. And other than some cheats coming back into the team there is little hope on the horizon. SL must fancy their chances.
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Re: India tour of Australia, Nov 21 - Jan 18

Postby meninblue » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:23 pm

What is shocking is that none of the Australian batsman has outscored even Jadeja (81) in single innings :shock:
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Re: India tour of Australia, Nov 21 - Jan 18

Postby sussexpob » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:34 pm

Obviously we can wonder what this series might have been had Australia had their top players present. Obviously it matter little to India fans, a victory in Australia comes around once in... well history. Have to credit Kohli really, he has this team well regimented and you feel they turned up and werent going to let this chance slip easily, regardless of the problems with Australia. Toughest place in cricket to go win, and they have done that.

For India, are we finally going to witness an overdue step up from perennial bridesmaid, to the top spot of world test cricket? There is pretty much no excuses now for India. A billion population mad on cricket, finally a bowling attack, some key world class batsman, a potent spin attack in conditions that suit. They need to turn this into a generation of domination now. The golden 5 were always hampered with a rubbish pace attack and no dominant spinner away.... all the elements are there now.
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Re: India tour of Australia, Nov 21 - Jan 18

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:44 pm

Shame for India that the series didn't end with the euphoria of a win they deserved. Obviously the players and their many supporters will be overjoyed.

But in terms of an epoch defining team, I'd balance that with the disappointment of losing to an England side that were there for the taking. Even allowing for Root's luck with the toss, India struggled for a lot of that series against a side in a deep slump.

So a mixed year for them.
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Re: India tour of Australia, Nov 21 - Jan 18

Postby GarlicJam » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:47 pm

sussexpob wrote:For India, are we finally going to witness an overdue step up from perennial bridesmaid, to the top spot of world test cricket? There is pretty much no excuses now for India. A billion population mad on cricket, finally a bowling attack, some key world class batsman, a potent spin attack in conditions that suit. They need to turn this into a generation of domination now. The golden 5 were always hampered with a rubbish pace attack and no dominant spinner away.... all the elements are there now.

I can't see that India will be moved from the Number One position, for any great length of time anyway, for decades.

Besides the massive population, and its drive, to keep providing high end talent, there is now the development and pathway systems that were not there in times gone - the monies in India Cricket will ensure this stays. As well as this, currently, there is the situation with their quality fast bowling attack - this is going to breed more Bumrahs and Shamis in the next decade, as well as the heirarchy's faith that they can develop quality quicks.

At the very least, I imagine it will be decades before Aus beat India in India again...
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Re: India tour of Australia, Nov 21 - Jan 18

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:25 pm

Which takes us back to the validity of a balance in the game which overwhelmingly benefits India, even if it is India that is driving the economy of world cricket. The game won't thrive if the richest country dominates the game because there has to be a contest. Which is why the 'big three' reorganization was so short sighted, and the consequence of the game being run by people from big corporations.

We're not there yet, (and Indian fans will no doubt enjoy their success for a while yet before they start to doubt its sustainability) but I see very little to look forward to in India easing into a period where their heft will lead to global domination. I want to see Pakistan and WI cricket given a chance. Cricket won't survive an Indian monopoly.
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Re: India tour of Australia, Nov 21 - Jan 18

Postby GarlicJam » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:33 pm

if it is power wielded wisely, it stands a chance. This is doubtful though - the mere exclusion of Pakistani players from the IPL, and India players from any other T20 League is evidence that it might be used as a bludgeon rather than a scalpel.
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Re: India tour of Australia, Nov 21 - Jan 18

Postby bigfluffylemon » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:46 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Which takes us back to the validity of a balance in the game which overwhelmingly benefits India, even if it is India that is driving the economy of world cricket. The game won't thrive if the richest country dominates the game because there has to be a contest. Which is why the 'big three' reorganization was so short sighted, and the consequence of the game being run by people from big corporations.

We're not there yet, (and Indian fans will no doubt enjoy their success for a while yet before they start to doubt its sustainability) but I see very little to look forward to in India easing into a period where their heft will lead to global domination. I want to see Pakistan and WI cricket given a chance. Cricket won't survive an Indian monopoly.


Insightful comment AC. I think we can all agree that world cricket is better when there is a strong WI, Pakistan and others outside the big 3.

The worst aspect of this to my mind is the ridiculous formats and scheduling of the global tournaments - shutting out associates and yet having a tournament that ponders on forever. It seems to me that the ICC and the BCCI were so burned by the early exits of India and Pakistan in 2007 (and probably to a lesser extent, England's exit in 2015), that they're bending over backwards to create formats that ensures that the biggest teams will be guaranteed to play lots of matches, and to ensure that the 'marquee' contests (India v Pakistan, India v Australia, Australia v England) will definitely take place.

No other sport is this daft. When Germany went out early in the World Cup, it was a great talking point, and teams like Russia, England and Croatia having much better runs than expected has fired up their supporters and helped keep up interest in the game.
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Re: India tour of Australia, Nov 21 - Jan 18

Postby bigfluffylemon » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:51 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Shame for India that the series didn't end with the euphoria of a win they deserved. Obviously the players and their many supporters will be overjoyed.

But in terms of an epoch defining team, I'd balance that with the disappointment of losing to an England side that were there for the taking. Even allowing for Root's luck with the toss, India struggled for a lot of that series against a side in a deep slump.

So a mixed year for them.


There was a good article on the England series on cricinfo. In two of the the four tests that England won, the contest was level or India had their noses in front in terms of win probability at least into the third innings of each match, yet they didn't manage to land the killer blow and England came back to win.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/ ... dia-series

The worst was probably Edgbaston, where India really should have won. England didn't become favourites to win until the 7th wicket had fallen in the fourth innings...
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Re: India tour of Australia, Nov 21 - Jan 18

Postby Alviro Patterson » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:05 am

sussexpob wrote:For India, are we finally going to witness an overdue step up from perennial bridesmaid, to the top spot of world test cricket? There is pretty much no excuses now for India. A billion population mad on cricket, finally a bowling attack, some key world class batsman, a potent spin attack in conditions that suit. They need to turn this into a generation of domination now. The golden 5 were always hampered with a rubbish pace attack and no dominant spinner away.... all the elements are there now.


We'll find out around February 2020 when India play two tests in New Zealand (also 3 ODIs and 5 T20is). Would like to see how Kohli and co fare against the premier seam opening partnership of Southee and Boult, followed with a peppering of short stuff by Wagner :fight
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Re: India tour of Australia, Nov 21 - Jan 18

Postby yuppie » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:59 am

India are the number 1 team in the world, but this series was hardly a test for them.
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Re: India tour of Australia, Nov 21 - Jan 18

Postby sussexpob » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:08 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Which takes us back to the validity of a balance in the game which overwhelmingly benefits India, even if it is India that is driving the economy of world cricket. The game won't thrive if the richest country dominates the game because there has to be a contest. Which is why the 'big three' reorganization was so short sighted, and the consequence of the game being run by people from big corporations. We're not there yet, (and Indian fans will no doubt enjoy their success for a while yet before they start to doubt its sustainability) but I see very little to look forward to in India easing into a period where their heft will lead to global domination. I want to see Pakistan and WI cricket given a chance. Cricket won't survive an Indian monopoly.


The BCCIs and top 3 ownership of the game might have disastrous effects on the depth of quality running down the order of international cricket, but I dont think it has any impact on the potential domination of Indian cricket. If India are to steamroller everyone in their path in the next 10-20 years moving forward, it would be entirely a natural consequence of the position the game holds in Indian society, coupled with the manpower clout that India can call on. This in itself leads to better financial resources, which in turn will always keep them one step ahead of the pack in every single basic measure. With the chips so heavily in their favour, they should dominate. Indian society has modernised and is awakening as a global superpower economy. While relative economic shortfalls held back the game and its structure in the past, these barriers no longer exist.

To compete, other boards need to be doing things better. They need to innovate, get their systems as efficient as possible, and maximise all the benefits they can to narrow the gap. Are they doing that? Pakistan's board has been a tragic mess for over a decade, and they dont even play games at home. Zimbabwe is Zimbabwe. The WICB is a tragedy. The ECB is risking the annihilation of its whole structure on a new format no one wants. Cricket Australia is in crisis. Everywhere you look, the administration is abhorrently poor. No board is getting it right. Until the game is run correctly in all these places, I dont think pointing fingers at the BCCI is going to work.

Cricket in England seems lost. Its no longer on TV. County cricket games attract about as many people as East Thurrock United do, in the 8th Tier of English amateur football (a sad, but very true stat). Until England and Australia can start attracting new blood to the sport and get their *modded* in order, they can get used to India dishing out hidings. Because frankly, unless a miracle happens, the India's should rapidly overtake everyone in the next few years. They simply have such an advantage, with such poor competition, they should be treading all over everyone.
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Re: India tour of Australia, Nov 21 - Jan 18

Postby alfie » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:15 am

Aargh. Somehow put this (above) on the wrong thread ...don't know how :stupid


I'm too lazy to write it all again on the right one. So to continue on the Other Matter...

Indeed congratulations to India on a fine win. As has been said , their first in Australia ( although I do well recall 1985 where they were definitely robbed of a deserved and emphatic victory by a badly timed weather wipeout : Melbourne rather than Sydney that time . Sometimes very patriotic , Australian weather :) )

However I wonder if people aren't getting just a little carried away heralding a future of Complete Indian Domination. Beating this - rather impoverished - Australian side deserves credit but perhaps doesn't yet prove they have become an all-conditions super team. 1-2 in SA. , 1-4 in England : yes they were competitive in some of those losses ; but they still lost. I think they are improving ; and they have a splendid home record , of course : but I prefer to wait and see how the next year or so treats them before opening Canonization proceedings...
As for predictions involving "decades" : well history tells me all good things come to an end eventually and I will be surprised if any team manages to remain top of the heap for that long. West Indies had a brilliant run for nearly 15 years , and so subsequently did Australia...but longer than that ?

Who knows : I may well be wrong : remind me in ten years if I'm still around and we will see :)
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