Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

Roach MOM?

Unless of course there is an incredible spell of bowling about to occur......

Ending it with a six was just rubbing it in!!

Hats off to the windies, way superior team this series!

My feeling before the series was that it'd be a 3-0 win and it looks as if that will be the result...although if I was a gambling man I'd have lost my money after the first test!

ah, but some impressive batting strike rates from England with an 83 and a couple of 86's. At least they didn't have to suffer the indignity of having to bat for nearly a whole day just to score 50 like that tosser Bravo.

England were just a bit unlucky, that's all.... on another day they'd have managed to hit their way out of trouble

Bayliss knows this, so no alarms and nothing that need concern us in any way

I wonder if Root said that England haven't become a bad team overnight?

Joe root as captain averages 42 compared to 52 as non captain

captaincy tends to either improve a batsman or become a burden that hinders the runs they score

Seems to be the latter for root

Congratulations Mike.

That was one hell of a beating.

I think they should play the ones who haven't been picked yet in the last game. Hardly anyone can claim they don't deserve to be dropped.

TBH the key match for WI would be the india series in july and august.

WI really need to win games outside England games.

Although WI got a decent core of players now so they should be competitive at home and conditions that suit their fast bowlers.
probably need to work on asian conditions though.

Guys, we are getting this all wrong.

As long as the ECB and their stakeholders state how The Hundred is good for English cricket, test series defeats to mediocre outfits like the West Indies are irrelevant.

Anyone who has bought tickets for The Ashes ought to request a refund, since the series will be a skittles contest bearing in mind half the players will be involved in World Cup and/or IPL cricket.

What I find perverse is England test contracted players are getting paid £750k per year and that is without add ons, yet there are players in that group who are gallivanting in the IPL as part of their development. New Zealand and West Indies counterparts are getting paid <25% in comparison, but have shown the desire to beat England and want to play more test cricket.

All this rhetoric of England are hurting after the 1st test defeat, but the top six have no capability of playing a solid forward defensive stroke to play themselves in. Any test contracted player wanting to play IPL should be converted to a white ball contract at the first instance. I would rather use that money to pay every England qualified domestic player £1600 per County Championship match.

Oh dear this keeps getting worse for England...

If anything this is more disappointing than the first Test where one might have thought they came in a bit cold and got ambushed : this time they knew - or should have known - what was coming but were totally unable to deal with it. I really don't want to downplay the excellence of the home team here though so firstly it should be hats off to Holder and co
He has turned a former group of individuals into a team - and got them playing proper Test Cricket again : no mean effort. Before these two games there were plenty saying West Indies Test Cricket was dead . Seems now a case of premature burial. And that is one thing to be welcomed ; even though it doesn't mean they've become superstars overnight -they also have to do it away from home. But huge progress. Particularly praiseworthy - despite the luck they undoubtedly enjoyed - their disciplined batting effort on day two which effectively settled this match

As to the hapless tourists : well what can you say ? Firstly it appears they got a bit carried away with the Sri Lankan tour success and imagined a similar approach would serve here. The squad selection , talk of maybe playing two or even three spinners , apparent policy of attacking when under pressure and even using unorthodox shots ... all worked last time but was obvious early on it wasn't cutting it on this trip. Trouble is they don't seem very good at going to Plan B... Did they underestimate the West Indies ? Clearly they did.

Truth is the success in Sri Lanka , meritorious as it was , should have been seen in isolation : unusual conditions , a pretty modest opponent ...by all means enjoy the victory but don't think it provides a template for the future. The old problems remain - and Smith and Bayliss seem unwilling or unable to address them. I for one will be glad when the World Cup is over (win or lose) and hopefully the management will drop the overwhelming fascination with the white ball game which seems to have influenced too much Test selection lately.

Not much they can do in the immediate future. One Test to play and no more batsmen in the squad they can try so they're pretty much stuck with this lot for it. Bowling I'd expect Curran to make way for Wood or Woakes but am not sure that will solve too much : the bowlers couldn't have done too much more this time in the face of their own low first innings and the dogged West Indian batting . Unless they can put a proper score on the board this will be 3-nil for sure. Can't really see any effective way to shuffle the batting either : a lot of good(ish) bats at seven or eight but no-one likely to help out in the top order...would help if the skipper could buy a run , but he seems to be in a bit of a fog at present.

When they get back home the first issue is to get a pair of openers : which for facing Australia doesn't include Jennings or Denly. Jury still out on Burns. County runs will need to count , unfashionable as that seems these days. I have grave doubts on Bairstow as a three but even if he does get bowled too often he has a century and a fifty from three games at three and warrants a bit more time to re-invent himself in that role. (Unless of course they want to get him back keeping and batting at seven between Stokes and Moeen. Think that order was working pretty well a couple of years back but various factors sort of blew it up) If there were a Trott-type player around I'd instal him there like a shot . But there ain't. Root must bat four so not much scope to change is there ?
Buttler surely bats five or not at all. He had a fine home and Sri Lanka run of form , and has certainly worked on his red ball game ; but many of those runs against India were made batting artificially low in the order ; and the Sri Lankan ones come at a discount. He has still to prove that he can do a genuine top five batting job : if he really needs to bat after the allrounder they need to look elsewhere.
I am a bit surprised to see even BBC internet nutters calling for Stokes to be axed : didn't they watch him bowl ? Trouble is his batting has got lost somewhere lately : even when he is in for a while he doesn't seem to have the old confidence - bordering on arrogance , maybe ; but it often came off with a bang...not happening at the moment. If England are to prosper , he needs to get back some swagger. Moeen , as long as he's kept to 7/8 , remains the spinner ; and hopefully gets some runs as well...
Anderson and Broad are (still) a mile ahead of the other prospective pace bowlers. May only have one more series together but for now just enjoy them and pick the best third seamer to join in. And hope someone stands up in the next few months to suggest they can take on a consistent role.

I'm sure that all sounds like tinkering to those who love an "off with their heads " approach. But unless you've got clearly superior heads to replace them I doubt there's a better policy. And I do come back to the openers as key : get a regular fifty plus start with the odd hundred and I think you'd find a lot of the other problems might melt away...

But no , I don't have the next Cook and Strauss hiding in my garage

Dr Cricket wrote:TBH the key match for WI would be the india series in july and august.

WI really need to win games outside England games.

Although WI got a decent core of players now so they should be competitive at home and conditions that suit their fast bowlers.
probably need to work on asian conditions though.

I doubt anyone is expecting the West Indies to soar back to number one on the basis of this series.

However, at last they've finally cottoned on to the strategy used by India and South Africa to prepare pitches to suit their bowling strengths. In India, it's spin, while in South Africa it's pace - the West Indies have faster pace bowlers than England right now.

India have a fast quartet too, so this summer should be interesting.

Touring will continue to be a challenge, but it's challenge for every other team these days. Yes, India won in Australia, but they lost in England. There's no outright number one, as it was with the West Indians of Lloyd and Richards, or the Australians of Taylor and Waugh.

Jimmy Adams as director of cricket has done a good job of implementing a strategy for home Tests, which is where half a team's Test matches are played. Develop a core of good pacers, and prepare pitches to suit them. That's what Gibson is doing with South Africa.

I think England made a mistake picking Curran. He's a good bowler in English conditions, but he was always going to struggle in Caribbean conditions.

TBH Mike meant like actually be competitive against other teams or win against the likes of NZ, Sri lanka, pak and other teams.

in the past 10-12 years WI have had odd wins against england or played well against them and then do nothing against the other teams.

if they could beat england they should be competitive against Sri lanka, pakistan and NZ etc.


mike any news on the test venues for the india vs WI series.
suspect Jamaica and Guyana or Trinidad will get them.

Dr Cricket wrote:TBH Mike meant like actually be competitive against other teams or win against the likes of NZ, Sri lanka, pak and other teams.

in the past 10-12 years WI have had odd wins against england or played well against them and then do nothing against the other teams.

if they could beat england they should be competitive against Sri lanka, pakistan and NZ etc.


mike any news on the test venues for the india vs WI series.
suspect Jamaica and Guyana or Trinidad will get them.

I think we'll agree that this series win over England differed somewhat from previous home series successes. For the first time this century, the West Indies actually seemed to have a strategy. Something new is finally happening....

But that strategy is limited. England's pace attack this time around was dire - Anderson and Broad are ageing, and is Curran really the best of the rest? With the way Sri Lanka has rapidly declined, I think the WI will beat SL in the Caribbean easily next time around. However, Pakistan and NZ have decent pace bowlers, so I can see Caribbean Test series with these two opponents being a competitive one. I also expect the WIndies to put up a better fight against India in this summer home series than they usually do.

But the reality is that when the WI tour, the pitches will not aid the pacers, so I don't expect much to change there.

When India tour the Caribbean, it seems the only thing they've decided is that Florida will host the two T20s. No news on the three ODIs and the two Tests. It's a pity it's just two Tests, but I suspect you're right - the ODIs and two Tests will probably be shared by Jamaica, Trinidad and Guyana.