NZ v England test matches, November 2019

Eng in India, Afg vs Ire in UAE, SA & Oz in NZ, SL in Bang

Re: NZ v England test matches, November 2019

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:32 pm

Pope drops KW off Stokes. Probably the thousandth drop ever off Gentle Ben.
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80415
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: NZ v England test matches, November 2019

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:33 pm

Sounds like the Sky box are dropping Sibley for SA.
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80415
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: NZ v England test matches, November 2019

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:15 am

NZ arguably end up on top in the Test.

Five hundreds v two tells us where they won the series.

Well done to the remarkable Neil Wagner for 13 wickets in three innings on reportedly very flat pitches.

Watling maybe for POTS?
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80415
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: NZ v England test matches, November 2019

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:25 am

KW was dropped by Denly off Archer (who has had a chastening series). Tough game this Test cricket.

Wonder how the Kiwis will get on in Australia?
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80415
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: NZ v England test matches, November 2019

Postby bigfluffylemon » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:43 am

bigfluffylemon wrote: FWIW, I'm predicting a repeat of last time, 1-0 to New Zealand, with one of the two matches a rain-affected draw. .


Not the most outlandish prediction, perhaps, but I'm claiming this one.
2022 Big Bash League FL
2023 Women's T20 World Cup FL
User avatar
bigfluffylemon
 
Posts: 6365
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:40 am
Team(s) Supported: England. Australia.
Any team playing good cricket in the right spirit.

Re: NZ v England test matches, November 2019

Postby Durhamfootman » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:44 am

another day, another wicketless performance
2024 Big Bash League FL
2023 County Championship D1 FL
2023 WI-SA combined FL
2023 Big Bash League FL
2022 County Championship D1 FL
2022 T20 Blast FL
2022 Ashes FL
2021 All Year Fantasy Competition
2021 ICC T20 World Cup FL
2021 Big Bash League FL
2020 SA-England combined FL
2020 Caribbean Premier League FL
2019 NZ-England test FL
2019 WI-India combined FL
2019 The Open Golf FL
2019 French Open Tennis FL
2019 Sheffield Shield FL
2019 Players Championship Golf FL
2019 Women's National Cricket League FL
2019 Women's Big Bash League FL
2018 All Year Fantasy Competition
2017 The Open Golf FL
2016 Australia-South Africa test FL
2016 County Championship D1 FL
2016 Indian Premier League FL
2015 County Fantasy Manager
2015 Big Bash League FL
2014 WI-England test and ODI FL
2014 County Championship D2 FL
2013 County Championship D2 FL
2012 Twenty20 Cup FL
Durhamfootman
 
Posts: 60350
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:53 pm
Location: Chester-le-Street
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC

Re: NZ v England test matches, November 2019

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:59 am

bigfluffylemon wrote:
bigfluffylemon wrote: FWIW, I'm predicting a repeat of last time, 1-0 to New Zealand, with one of the two matches a rain-affected draw. .


Not the most outlandish prediction, perhaps, but I'm claiming this one.


Not just the result but even got the weather right!
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80415
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: NZ v England test matches, November 2019

Postby sussexpob » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:18 am

New Zealand show England how to bat on a day 5 pitch, and rightfully therefore take the series. Probably the difference in the end; in two matches where the draw was favourite, the Kiwi's managed to pluck a win out of England's terrible resolve, while England were unable to do the same against a quality line up happy to step up for the fight. But I am not going to go full barrel at England, because there was a step in the right direction with the bat; ok, the pitch might not have been much to bowl on, but since when has that stopped England folding like a deck of cards in a session before?

Take away for the series?

The positives.....

1. The return of Root; played some quality stuff in this test, and the old deft touch was back. Mixed hearty defence and patience with creative scoring, and occasional brutality to the looser stuff. Hopefully this leads to a renaissance for him.

2. Ollie Pope; I'd like to think that Pope was a little nervous in his first efforts, but his 75 in this test allowed us to have a better look at what he's bringing to the table. I think he looks a technically compact player, and once he got himself in he played a few wonderful strokes; most notably a few wonderful back foot drives into the offside that werent that wide, but which he cremated with very little problems. Showed patience; got out to a short ball trying to accelerate, but had he maintained a comfortable pace, 3 figures could have been on.

3. Rory Burns; he's not going to be breaking any of Alistair Cook's records, and he's still not the best technically.... but he turns up to bat as long as possible, and like all the best openers, when he makes a mistake and gets off the hook, he puts his head down and makes sides pay. He's slowly improving.... and lets be honest, an opener who can average in the 35 region after the last 5 years feels like a god send for our rabble (a pretty scathing conclusion, but one that is undoubtedly true).

4. Ben Stokes (Batting) ; continues to add useful contributions for the team, and his 91 kept England from collapsing in the first test.

5. Chris Woakes - If only he could get fit and a run going. Was the pick of the England bowlers in the test he played.

The undecided

1. Joe Denly - He's proving he can make 50s, but in terms of the business innings that win matches, we are yet to see one of 3 figures. I understand why Denly wants to play with extreme negativity, it might just be what England need; but its not playing to Denly's strenghts, and batting the way he does might be far less efficient in getting the most runs out of him. I'd like to see him get his eye in more and play his natural game. That's not to say slog or be reckless, but once he's set and got a start, not be so passive.

2. Jofra Archer - Bad series, quality player. I am sure he will bounce back and take this as part of his learning curve.

The negatives

1. Ben Stokes (bowling) - Average with the ball this year is creeping to 40, which is a marked step backwards in his career. I get the feeling that Stokes is currently transitioning from all rounder to batter who bowls, and that less attention is being paid off the field to making his bowling work. Thats a shame, because a bowler with his ability to move the ball either way, especially with the old ball, is the type of thing you want in series like this, where you have to make things happen on docile pitches. Stokes has a habit of bowling spells that bring other bowlers back into the match too..... but we are seeing it with lessing frequency as time goes by.

2. Stuart Broad - The game is a total different proposition when the ball doesnt move; as if to underline that point, Wee Davey Warner was wracking up 335 not out elsewhere in the hemisphere while Broad was struggling to do anything more than keep the scoring rate down. Is Broad the type of player who has any use outside of the swinging tracks of England? Maybe, its hard to lay into him full barrel, because it was hardly a disaster, but for batsman willing to show him respect and patience, there isnt a lot else to challenge them.

3. Jack Leach - Santner's wickets were the start of England's defeat in the first test, where he was able to get something out the pitch; Leach had toiled for 2 days asking no questions. He has to improve.

4. Sam Curran - There is obvious question marks about how useful Curran is when the ball stops swinging. When he has movement to play with, he can hit the right lengths and lines to utilisie it, when it stops, hes just a medium pacer sending down easy to negotiate stuff. With Broad already in the team, the two of them provide England with very little pace.

5 Jos Buttler - As I said before, once the luck runs out you are left with an average keeper and a batter than rarely makes big scores..... the luck has run out, and so has the runs. Time to go....

The "do we need to see anymore"

Dom Sibley - Ive said my piece; looks technically inept. Do we need another 15 tests of seeing his bambi on ice gig to realise this, or can we cut loose now?

Zak Crawley - Averages 30 in FC cricket. Should never have been picked, but as usual, the ECB propaganda was at hand to big up just how great a technical player he was; 6 balls into his debut, the footwork is missing, presumed dead, as he gets out thrusting his hands out with a massive gap between bat and bad.... turns out yet again, the propaganda line was a load of s***..... averages terribly for a reason, and that reason seems to be shots like that....... and that is after he tried to run himself out with his only run in tests.

Lets hope it remains his only run.
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 35322
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: NZ v England test matches, November 2019

Postby bigfluffylemon » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:05 am

Good summary sussex.

Not sure I agree about Broad in the negative column. He did well in the first innings here, kept New Zealand to a sub-par score. He may have lost some of the cutting edge he had, but he's experienced and smart enough to keep finding ways to contribute. But time isn't on his side.

You also forgot one major negative: the catching. Dear Lord, the catching. How many missed changes were there? On pitches like this where it's hard to make inroads with the ball, you have to take every opportunity offered. How different might the game have been if England snagged Watling in the 60s in the first test, or Latham mid-innings on day 1 here? We'll never know, but this many misses from a professional team is quite frankly inexcusable. Stokes and Archer especially should be pretty narked how many opportunities they created that weren't taken.
2022 Big Bash League FL
2023 Women's T20 World Cup FL
User avatar
bigfluffylemon
 
Posts: 6365
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:40 am
Team(s) Supported: England. Australia.
Any team playing good cricket in the right spirit.

Re: NZ v England test matches, November 2019

Postby sussexpob » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:37 am

bigfluffylemon wrote:Not sure I agree about Broad in the negative column. He did well in the first innings here, kept New Zealand to a sub-par score. He may have lost some of the cutting edge he had, but he's experienced and smart enough to keep finding ways to contribute. But time isn't on his side


His contributions have been below par away from home for a while, in an era of falling batting totals. Last 3 years, his average away is 36, and that is bolstered by the fact he has never been a great tourist (33 average away, 26 at home). What is also noticeable is, his SR has dipped to a very poor level, while his econ rate is noticeably tight. It shows that in more alien conditions where he cant rely on swing to attack, he has digressed mostly into a bowler who tries to bore batsman out, and he's not really that good at it. Batsman have generally been able to grind it out against him in general. I cant see what value he has in conditions that doesnt suit him anymore.

He lost his pace and his ability to hit the deck hard very early. He's adapt his game more to the classic swinger role. I said this in the summer, but if we want to maximise his use into the future, we have to consider him to be a horses for course type pick, or play him exclusively at home. When he is well rested, that hint of nip he used have does return on occasions, and early in the Ashes series we seen some higher end pace return; but he cant do it test after test.

Id rather limit his role and get the best out of him. But as a player who's been a go to of 60 away tests, I dont think his career returns have justified this. He's been a pretty average bowler away all through his career, and is fading into a pretty poor one recently.

One encouraging fact is, South Africa has been a fruitful venue for him, so that might be a last hurrah; and SAs pitches on occasion have been minefields recently. But after that series we cant get wrapped up in assuming, if he does well, its indicative of latent ability; he will always do well in certain scenarios, and will always be toothless in others.

The idea for instance that he ever bowls in the subcontinent or in an away Ashes series again, fills me with dread. He has very little to offer in those conditions now.
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 35322
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: NZ v England test matches, November 2019

Postby sussexpob » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:12 pm

bigfluffylemon wrote:You also forgot one major negative: the catching. Dear Lord, the catching. How many missed changes were there? On pitches like this where it's hard to make inroads with the ball, you have to take every opportunity offered. How different might the game have been if England snagged Watling in the 60s in the first test, or Latham mid-innings on day 1 here? We'll never know, but this many misses from a professional team is quite frankly inexcusable. Stokes and Archer especially should be pretty narked how many opportunities they created that weren't taken.


The fact is, the selectors have completely failed the team and its bowlers by not getting basic decisions right, yet Ed Smith seems to be made of teflon. If I sent the cleaning lady from the office to a trade fair and asked her to negotiate sales, could I blame her when she came back having bankrupted the company? In the same way, can I evenly remotely blame Ollie Pope for dropping the simplest of chances behind the stumps when he is not a keeper? How on god's green earth was a 21 year old desperately trying to cut his way into the team given an additionally important role that he has very little experience of? What kind of damage could that do to him? Let him prepare to bat, not concentrate on other things he isnt good at.

We play 3 capped international keepers in some tests in the last 12 months, and then take 1 on tour. Its unforgivable. And I think as supporters we deserve to know why Ben Foakes, the top average bat in his time in the team and by far the most superior keeper, cant even get a frigging spot in the squad when there are no alternatives taken.

So it doesnt surprise me that England shell chances, because god forbid they do things like put their best catchers in the best places. That would require some form of brain power. Denly has shelled countless catches in the team, so why was it him fielding in a shortish position that clearly isnt saving a single, in this test? If he is going to take a catch off the bat short in that position, its generally going to be a stunner going at pace.... ok, in the end its a catching practice style opportunity that he drops, but it doesnt matter. If he clearly cant catch a cold, why is he repeatedly put in fielding spots where opportunities are thrown at him? Put him on the boundary, he clearly cant bloody field.
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 35322
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: NZ v England test matches, November 2019

Postby sussexpob » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:17 pm

On the Foakes issue, I have a sneaky suspicion that this is actually all down to Ed Smith's pride; he picked Buttler as his go to man, displaying a lack of any justification, and god damn he does not want a superior keeper-bat anywhere near the side to expose what a terrible idea it was. As gradually his choices for the test team all burn out quickly, or slowly fade away, it is becoming rather obvious that Smith has got pretty much zero right.

And after a long period of our bowlers doing well, trust us to sack the bowling coaches on the grounds they arent doing anything, then our front line attack all averaging over 40 in a series after.
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 35322
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: NZ v England test matches, November 2019

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:17 pm

Not sure Stokes is flattered by being the fifth bowler in an all seam attack. It's not the best opportunity out there.
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80415
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: NZ v England test matches, November 2019

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:20 pm

Good point about the keepers. That was a bad error.
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80415
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: NZ v England test matches, November 2019

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:23 pm

I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80415
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

PreviousNext

Return to Live Cricket Matches

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 37 guests