England tour of South Africa

[Durhamfootman]

England had umpteen chances to thrash SA tonight. Too many players threw their wickets away needlessly. Roy played really well, but what he was doing trying to hit that pie from Hendricks I have no idea. It was piece of filth that he should have left well alone. England were miles on top at that point.

Denly coming in before Stokes was a head scratcher, because he just scraped about wasting a few deliveries before holing out, leaving the rate climbing and no time for Stokes to get his eye in before having to get the long handle out. I suppose they were trying to keep a right/left combo, but that didn't work at all.

Mo looked all at sea with bat in hand. The only time I've seen him bat recently was that and him hitting the winning runs in the last ODI. He waves his bat around like a tailender.... he's better than that surely? He used to be a very good batsman. Playing like that gives me no confidence at all that coming in late in the innings he could be capable of hitting a boundary when it was most needed in a tight run chase

[Durhamfootman]

Not all bad though. They were chasing the biggest T20I total ever scored at that ground and they probably should have chased it with an over or two to spare

England's death bowling looked very good. Just a couple of boundaries off the last 3 overs and a clutch of wickets just as SA were looking like they were going to post a total approaching 200. I missed the first half of SA's innings, so I have no idea whether the first 6 overs were the aberration, or the last 3.

Jordan is an outstanding fielder. If I was an IPL franchise I'd be trying to sign up him and Miller. Between the two of them, they'd drop nowt

[Durhamfootman]

I was disappointed with what I saw from Curran. I haven't really seen him play before, but his domestic figures from T20 tournaments around the world suggest either that he's much better than that, or that the domestic leagues are of a much lower quality

[DiligentDefence]

We managed to F*** that right up

Morgan played a terrific innings but what was he thinking about on the last ball of the 19th over

Just take the single and be on strike needing only 6 off the last

I couldn't have put that any better

Absolutely.

[sussexpob]

Denly coming in before Stokes was a head scratcher, because he just scraped about wasting a few deliveries before holing out, leaving the rate climbing and no time for Stokes to get his eye in before having to get the long handle out

Obviously Ben Stokes is an infallible demi-god who never does wrong, so I guess wasting a quarter of the available balls leaving the rest of the tail to score 11 an over was all Denly's fault, and not his 57SR effort at the death. Its amazing that I have seen more criticism of Morgan and Roy than of Stokes' effort. People think I have something against Stokes personally, but the cult of personality really does grate.... if anyone is responsible for England not turning a pretty comfortable win into a loss, then Im struggling to come up with anyone else.

[sussexpob]

While asking why Denly came in at 5, we should probably ask should Stokes have been coming in at all. His record in T20Is is frankly a flat out abomination; 14 average with the bat and a below average SR, no score past 38. With ball in hand he is 1 run over the average economy rate in T20Is, hardly takes wickets with a poor SR, and averages nearly 50. The only noticeable career contribution was bowling the worst over in T20I history and losing us the World Cup. These figures are really, really poor.

And it transfers to the team success as well..... with Stokes in the side, England fail to win 60% percent of matches. With him out of the side since he debuted, England fail to win only 45%. And its worth remembering that certainly recently, when Stokes hasnt played T20Is its often because he, like other members of the first team, are rested. So England's B team seem to be better overall because Stokes isnt there, than England's A team manage having to essentially play with 10 men.

Meanwhile England left out a player with 6 x 50s in 9 T20Is, including a hundred, made at a SR ranking him with the very best players ever, and who has a better bowling average in county cricket with an econ rate nearly a run less per over. Did Dawan Malan get caught in bed with Ed Smith's wife, or can we assume this is another senseless selection? Alex Hales ban was only 21 days too, why isnt he there? Are you telling me Bairstow is a better player in this format than him?

Typical England really; a mix of idiocy and personal gripes dictating how you shape a squad for a major tournament. Get the best team out, regardless if that means picking people who like a bit of powder. Could you imagine Argentina dropping Maradona in 1986 because he liked a bit of the Bolivian marching powder? Of course they wouldnt, they'd have wanted to win.

[DiligentDefence]

I wouldn't have Stokes in the T20 side, same as I wouldn't have Root. My view is that they should only be concentrating on 2 out of 3 formats to avoid burnout and prolong careers.

[Durhamfootman]

I haven't seen much of Malan, but Hales absolutely should be in the T20 side. Unsurprisingly I disagree about Stokes, but I agree about Root.

I neglected to say how well I thought Rashid did with the ball. It's good to see a spinner tossing the ball up for a change and his control looks very good atm. Good figures for Mo too considering he did a lot of bowling up front when the pace men were going around the park

[Durhamfootman]

and Stokes did have the ODI series off, so the 2 formats out of 3 seems to hold

[Slipstream]

While asking why Denly came in at 5, we should probably ask should Stokes have been coming in at all. His record in T20Is is frankly a flat out abomination; 14 average with the bat and a below average SR, no score past 38. With ball in hand he is 1 run over the average economy rate in T20Is, hardly takes wickets with a poor SR, and averages nearly 50. The only noticeable career contribution was bowling the worst over in T20I history and losing us the World Cup. These figures are really, really poor.

And it transfers to the team success as well..... with Stokes in the side, England fail to win 60% percent of matches. With him out of the side since he debuted, England fail to win only 45%. And its worth remembering that certainly recently, when Stokes hasnt played T20Is its often because he, like other members of the first team, are rested. So England's B team seem to be better overall because Stokes isnt there, than England's A team manage having to essentially play with 10 men.

Meanwhile England left out a player with 6 x 50s in 9 T20Is, including a hundred, made at a SR ranking him with the very best players ever, and who has a better bowling average in county cricket with an econ rate nearly a run less per over. Did Dawan Malan get caught in bed with Ed Smith's wife, or can we assume this is another senseless selection? Alex Hales ban was only 21 days too, why isnt he there? Are you telling me Bairstow is a better player in this format than him?

Typical England really; a mix of idiocy and personal gripes dictating how you shape a squad for a major tournament. Get the best team out, regardless if that means picking people who like a bit of powder. Could you imagine Argentina dropping Maradona in 1986 because he liked a bit of the Bolivian marching powder? Of course they wouldnt, they'd have wanted to win.

I have only just seen Stokes figures - average 14.75 s/r 127.56 HS 38 /47.27 econ 8.86. The way England go on about him you would think he is the first name on the team sheet. Compare him to Bopara average 28.44 s/r 118.69 HS 65* / 24.18 econ 7.21.

[bigfluffylemon]

Stokes is still dining out on his status as player of the tournament in the IPL a couple of years ago, it seems.

Curran was bloody good in the recent BBL. But it's obviously a lower standard than T20Is.

[Arthur Crabtree]

England side was very enthusiastic about Hales being omitted for the WC. Tempting to think the team just doesn't want him there.

[ianp1970]

I wouldn't have Stokes in the T20 side, same as I wouldn't have Root. My view is that they should only be concentrating on 2 out of 3 formats to avoid burnout and prolong careers.

I would agree, with a caveat that the formats can change. This year and next should be Tests plus T20s, then switch to ODIs from 2022.

[ianp1970]

With regards to criticism over Stokes, would anyone be prepared to go into a key KO match next autumn with only 5 bowlers?

If so, fair enough.
If not, who is the AR?
If neither option, how are you balancing the team?

[sussexpob]

England side was very enthusiastic about Hales being omitted for the WC. Tempting to think the team just doesn't want him there.

Well unless your Eoin Morgan or Buttler, Hales being there is a threat to your shirt, so I'm not surprised the team might not want him back....strictly for selfish reasons. Hales is a better bat than every single one of them, experienced, long term proven, so in fairness I don't really care what his team-mates think. It's like my boss asking me "do you want me to hire someone who does your job better".....of course I'd say no.

Remember it was only a matter of months ago the squad made it clear a certain bowler would destroy England's team bonding....he destroyed it by outperforming everyone by miles and stepping up in arguably the highest pressure over ever bowled by and Englishman, and winning the world cup. So i think we can ignore what these idiots say

Morgan went to town on trust issues; the irony being someone in the ECB, of which apparently only 3 people were aware, sold the guardian the story of him being barred, against the ECB policy and against his legal rights, so to hear Morgan get all high horse about trust was pretty laughable. We know the ECB would sell their best bat in three decades down the river when it suits them, so let's not give lectures about trust.

Hales was just 2nd top scorer in the BBL that ended last weekend so he's on top form too. No brainer.

My guess is he doesn't fit the Ed Smith data metric; which seems to be to pick players who don't play, and ignore players plundering runs like no one else in premier competitions.

I guess us plebs shouldn't question him; he did write a.book on.baseball, he knows.his stuff.